50nl hand for review

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spookah123

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I played a hand earlier today, the villian (on my left) involved in a big pot where I think he perceived there was a high likeliness I was bluffing, this guy wants revenge and has since shown a tendency to 3bet me more often than normal against me. I also anticipate this will increase his propensity to call my bets with marginal hands.


poker stars, $0.25/$0.50, $0.10 ante No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $132.38 (264.8 bb)
BB: $92.08 (184.2 bb)
UTG: $138.43 (276.9 bb)
MP: $123.85 (247.7 bb)
Hero (CO): $137.11 (274.2 bb)
BTN: $120.30 (240.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4d 4s
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BTN raises to $4.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($10.35) Js 9h 3s (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $6.50, Hero ??
 
John A

John A

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Yeah, I wouldn't get in the habit of leveling yourself too much. You should fold pre-flop, and c/f the flop. Keep in mind he probably know that you think he's bluffing, so he's going to call you down lighter. On this kind of flop, it's not something you want to c/c and CR is a mess. I would have just bet the flop to try and take it down and be done with the hand if I did call pre-flop. Otherwise you're stuck trying to rep a hand and turn your small pair into a bluff the whole time. Not super +EV to do OOP.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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Yeah, I wouldn't get in the habit of leveling yourself too much. You should fold pre-flop, and c/f the flop. Keep in mind he probably know that you think he's bluffing, so he's going to call you down lighter. On this kind of flop, it's not something you want to c/c and CR is a mess. I would have just bet the flop to try and take it down and be done with the hand if I did call pre-flop. Otherwise you're stuck trying to rep a hand and turn your small pair into a bluff the whole time. Not super +EV to do OOP.


Isn't set mining still profitable though??? everyone on that table looks deep?


If the boards scarey or dry or paired up.. I'll cbet and make money without hitting my set that way.


John. Calling the flop wouldn't that be a good idea?... If we hit a 4 on the turn won't we sort of have a deceived set. And just keep playing weakish and hope he keeps raising his top pair? ... Then value bet the river? ... I mean most turns we can easily let go of the hand, but if we do make our set being on the turn should be highly profitable. If our villain can easily let go of his hand then its not profitable.. But he's invested a bit and is in love with his hand somewhat so we want to play!
 
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mottotom27

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i don't like calling the 3bet even deep here because villain has position on us and also if he's been 3betting wide in this spot then it isn't the ideal range to setmine against. the exception is if he plays very aggressive postflop in which case i would call for implied odds vs his bluffs. I hate c/c on that board since we are only going to hit our set like less than 1/20 on the turn and even if we hit we don't know if we can win his stack
 
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DunningKruger

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I would strongly albeit politely suggest that thou muckest thy hole cards. imho
 
John A

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Isn't set mining still profitable though??? everyone on that table looks deep?


If the boards scarey or dry or paired up.. I'll cbet and make money without hitting my set that way.


John. Calling the flop wouldn't that be a good idea?... If we hit a 4 on the turn won't we sort of have a deceived set. And just keep playing weakish and hope he keeps raising his top pair? ... Then value bet the river? ... I mean most turns we can easily let go of the hand, but if we do make our set being on the turn should be highly profitable. If our villain can easily let go of his hand then its not profitable.. But he's invested a bit and is in love with his hand somewhat so we want to play!

Yeah, true. I thought they were 100 bbs deep. I think the profitability of set mining has gone down a ton, and is very player dependent. I don't mind a call being this deep pre-flop, but there would be some decent regs I would still fold against simply because they won't pay me off often enough when I do hit.

As far as the flop though, no I wouldn't call and rely on hitting AND hoping my opponent understands I shouldn't be calling there. The only time I'm calling there is when I plan to make some big plays and rep a future draw that came in. Otherwise I'm c/fing the flop.
 
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fishinthesea

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You would have to hit a set a very high percentage of the time for this play to be even remotely profitable. If you sensed that he was 3-betting you a lot, a 4-bet jam line OR folding would be far more profitable than just flat calling. I would not suggest jamming unless you have a VERY strong read or if you are okay with 50/50 flips
 
John A

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You would have to hit a set a very high percentage of the time for this play to be even remotely profitable. If you sensed that he was 3-betting you a lot, a 4-bet jam line OR folding would be far more profitable than just flat calling. I would not suggest jamming unless you have a VERY strong read or if you are okay with 50/50 flips

You did what I did. They are 240 bbs deep, so no jamming. :)
 
Aces2w1n

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Yeah, true. I thought they were 100 bbs deep. I think the profitability of set mining has gone down a ton, and is very player dependent. I don't mind a call being this deep pre-flop, but there would be some decent regs I would still fold against simply because they won't pay me off often enough when I do hit.

As far as the flop though, no I wouldn't call and rely on hitting AND hoping my opponent understands I shouldn't be calling there. The only time I'm calling there is when I plan to make some big plays and rep a future draw that came in. Otherwise I'm c/fing the flop.


I guess a scare card comes out like an A or a flush possibility im betting... we will get a lot of better hands to fold :)

Unless our villain contains a K or A draw to the flush then he aint going anywhere.
 
F Paulsson

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Three notes:

44 should be a very standard open in the CO.

Calling the 3bet is fine, given how deep you are. It's close, but it's not a mistake in my opinion.

This flop, however, is c/f. Lots of draws, he doesn't believe you, your two outs won't come home often enough to make up for the cost of seeing the turn. In position, you could maybe - maybe - peel. But not here. Leading the flop is bad for the same reason. He won't fold anything.
 
F Paulsson

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Addendum: peeling a card in position on this flop is basically hoping to get to showdown vs a bluff cheaply + small chance of hitting a set.
 
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tomnovember

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Play your play before calling preflop
 
suby_rafael

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After the flop you are just playing a guessing game and if you decide to stick around (which would be not the ideal thing to do in my mind) then you'll be punished and bleed chips more often.

I don't see any ideal way to continue with our hand post flop seriously. So good call pre flop. Now a disciplined laydown would be ideal. :)

Also calling hoping that your hand is good and that you might hit a set later is not a good line to think. The worst case scenario then would be you hitting a set on later street only to be up against a bigger one from the villain and losing your complete stack instead of losing just 4 bucks. :p
 
Figaroo2

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It's all been said. Fold pre or on the flop with your small pair of 4s.
Also if he is going to be picking on you with position I would probably just leave the table. Unless you think you can benefit from his tilt.
 
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