$50nl FR - TPTK Facing Tons of Agression

You are ahead the vast majority of the time. I'm kind of on the fence between calling and calling any river bet or just shoving here. He will probably look you up with a lot of worse Qs so I probably just shove and if he does happen to be on the flush draw you will charge him properly.

Yeah, shove away. An 8 rarely takes this line, and although I wouldn't be surprised if he actually showed up with one, it's just not that likely. Shove to charge the draws and stack a worse queen before a heart falls and they potentially change their mind.

This is a worse queen or diamond draw like always. I'm in favor of shoving the turn to get value from queens and charge the draws.

If i were in that positon i would call the 15 and see the river card. Then i would call any bet on the river cause i am would have to much in the pot

I call turn, call river. If he's spazzing, I want him to keep spazzing on the river.

vanquish said:

I call turn, call river. If he's spazzing, I want him to keep spazzing on the river.

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I don't think he's ever bluffing enough on the river to make up for the equity you lose by not charging hands that will call a turn shove, but not a river shove. And value betting the river get's tricky if he does check it, so I prefer to get it in here.

I dunno, I think if he's gonna donkbluff the turn then he will bluff at the river quite often. Sure we only have a small sample, but if we assume villain's state are representative of his play as a whole then he's probably thinking "RARRRR ME BLUFF" and not going to change his line of thinking on the river. That said, his range is weighted more to Qx hands and draws than bluffs, so I shove turn and expect to be called a lot of the time.

dsvw56 said:

I don't think he's ever bluffing enough on the river to make up for the equity you lose by not charging hands that will call a turn shove, but not a river shove. And value betting the river get's tricky if he does check it, so I prefer to get it in here.

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In a vacuum it's much better to call here given that we fold out a ton of bluffs by shoving, if we do indeed believe his turn donking range is more than just draws + Qx (which it would be, unless he's a nitbox), and if he donks the turn like that, he's donking the river almost 100% of the time, even if his draws missed given the size of the pot. However he is folding all of his bluffs (and a lot of weird 99-type hands) to a turn raise. (We also don't need to raise to protect our equity in this spot.)

In this particular situation, shoving seems standard on the turn.

Dorkus Malorkus said:

I dunno, I think if he's gonna donkbluff the turn then he will bluff at the river quite often. Sure we only have a small sample, but if we assume villain's state are representative of his play as a whole then he's probably thinking "RARRRR ME BLUFF" and not going to change his line of thinking on the river. That said, his range is weighted more to Qx hands and draws than bluffs, so I shove turn and expect to be called a lot of the time.

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Well that's what I meant. Obviously if he is bluffing, he's going to keep bluffing, but I just don't think that's often enough to justify flatting the turn. He's much much more likely to show up with QX or XdXd, imo.

Both shoving and flat calling turn and river are fine. Without reads we can probably presume that villain isn't going to be doing this with air and both draws/weaker Qs will call a shove. With reads that villain can spazz postflop i'd call turn and call a river shove since we get the money from bluffs then as well. But yea with no reads i think the fact that we charge the flush draw probably outweighs the money we'll lose from him bluffing random crap on the river (isn't that likely he has complete air and he might shut down on river with bluffs anyways).

Trip 8s would be funny, but make no sense at all. 3 combos of 22 are about all that beats you that makes any sort of sense (in case you were ever thinking of folding).

i just want to say i hope you got to see his hand, cause i want to know what the **** does this. seems bizarre for an 8, but can't help thinking it shows up more than i give it credit for (i'm not folding btw)

After that flop action, I think a big hand would slowplay 80% of the time. The half-pot bet signals an attempt at pot control, imo. He sees the FD and paired board so I think he's protecting something like an overpair or KQ. 22, QQ, and 88 all slowplay here nearly always.

I think the only thing you lose to here is AA or KK. Too many other possibilities, so I'd shove here.