[50nl FR] I've been a maniac, we're both deep, facing 4bet AIPF from nit

icemonkey9

icemonkey9

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Here's the situation ...

After about 35 hands I am looking like a maniac with a line of 33/27/6 with a 3bet % of 20%. The villain here is a 11/8/5 nitty solid player with a 3bet of 1%. So what do you do, fold or call?

The hand ...

poker stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

MP1: $74.80 (149.6 bb)
MP2: $8.50 (17 bb)
MP3: $25 (50 bb)
Hero (CO): $62.20 (124.4 bb)
BTN: $139.30 (278.6 bb)
SB: $54.65 (109.3 bb)
BB: $50 (100 bb)
UTG+1: $41.95 (83.9 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with Q
heart.gif
Q
spade.gif

UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero raises to $6, 4 folds, MP1 raises to $74.80 and is all-in, Hero ?????
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Are you sure you have QQ and not QJs??? ;)

This is almost always AK. AA/KK likely don't shove as a 4bet. I call.
 
F

feitr

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I really don't think you should ever factor in table image when it comes to nits at these stakes. They are probably playing lots of tables and nits are typically terrible at adjusting to LAG players.

That said, the fact that villain shoves here instead of 4 betting smaller is extremely odd (typically i'd think this is AK, as i'd expect KK+ to 4B smaller). Still think you should probably fold here. When i used to play 50nl FR i don't remember being happy about stacking off with less than KK vs a typical opponent and i was certainly not a nit. I really don't think you can put AK (even AKs) into a nit's shoving range at FR nl50 slightly deep and definitely not TT/JJ etc.

vs somebody you have had some history in this session with/somebody a little bit looser and more likely to adapt this is pretty easy to ship in since you are at the absolute top of your range, but i just doubt a nit knows/cares/can or wants to do anything about your image here. vs a AKs, KK+ range you are a huge dog (like 28%) and i just don't think a nit w/1% 3B is going any wider than that.
 
i desire love

i desire love

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Id PUT THE GUY ON AK here, i dont really see the point of calling reallly best youll get here is a coin flip
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Villain obviously has Qh3h, call. (seriously this is a call at full ring as far as I know, plus what VW said).
 
blankoblanco

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Are you sure you have QQ and not QJs??? ;)

This is almost always AK. AA/KK likely don't shove as a 4bet. I call.

eh, i think this is AA/KK decently often. hell, i see people openshoving AA/KK at full ring more than you'd believe, so 4bet pushing is way more reasonable than that. and if he thinks you're somewhat crazy, he may believe thats the best way to get the money in

if anything, you could use a different line of reasoning and say that this type of player is frequently not 4betting AK in this spot at all, so the sheer fact that he 4bet regardless of size makes his AA/KK frequency considerable in comparison

i mean, let's put it this way. we're 125 BBs deep vs. an EP nit who's 4betting. our image can hold some weight, but an 11/8 doesn't exactly look like the type of player who's playing others' ranges as much as his own cards.

if he'd do this with JJ or some other worse pair a decent portion of the time, it's a call. if not, it's a fold. how likely are those hands to be a solid part of his range? i dunno, people do weird stuff sometimes, so a call is certainly not awful. i just think it's quite close
 
B

bw07507

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I vote for a fold here. The nit likely has more hands than 20 on you so knows that you arent really a 30/27 or whatever if hes even paying attention at all. You're 125 BBs deep, I actually snap fold this at FR I think because 11/9s with 1% 3bet arent ever shoving AK. Especially when they raise from MP and get 3bet.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Only if he never does this with AK are we not getting the odds to call. We're 40% against a ultra tight (although likely) range of KK+/AK. Maybe it's a horrible flaw in my game but I never find a fold here.
 
zachvac

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What range do you put him on? Even if he does this with AK, QQ, AND JJ it's barely a call. It's an easy fold if he does it with AK/QQ+.
 
F

feitr

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we are only 28% or so vs AKs/KK+ and i REALLY find it hard to believe that a 1% 3B nit is ever going to shove AKo here. It just isn't going to happen and a nit isn't even shoving AKs imo. I honestly doubt a nit would ever even 4B here with AK. And TT/JJ just isn't doing it unless villain is on life tilt. I'm just 23/19 when i play 6 max and there are extremely few villains and situations i would gladly stack preflop with TT/JJ so to think a 11/8 nit in FR with a 1% 3B is going to ever do it is ridiculous.

If villain showed anything but KK/AA i'd be amazed.
 
OzExorcist

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I just don't see a nit doing this with a big enough range for calling to be profitable. It might be AK, but I'd expect it to be AA/KK most of the time. Outside chance it's QQ as well, but only an outside chance.

If I were going for the soulread, I'd put the emphasis on KK - he probably doesn't want you calling with AK and putting a beat on him. I think AA probably tries harder to get called here.
 
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