[50nl FR] I hate JJ so much. Look at the entire hand, way too passive?

This was a hand that i felt I played very poorly. Take a look, maybe it wasn't that bad or maybe it was ... my thinking *during* the hand is below. Main villain UTG+1 is 36/12/inf over 33 hands and I have been nittish tight at 8/8 over the same amount of hands.

First I think this was a good squeeze opportunity preflop ... yes?

Second, I figured my JJ wasn't good ... but i hit the set but realize that my set is just not looking all that hot since AK, K9, 98 just made the straight and there's 3 other people in the pot and still one more card to come. The villain here basically min-raises for the second time and I think he's either SUPER weak or SUPER strong. So I flat it to see what comes of the river (ideally a brick).

Third - with the king on the river I even said out loud "I have no clue how I can possibly be ahead here". I mean ... KQ for him? KJ? Any A or any 9 has me beat so I'm playing passively hoping for a cheap showdown.



***** Game number #21002018840 *****
Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/10/07 13:19:53 ET

Seat 8 (BTN) has the button.
SB posts small blind [$0.25]
Hero posts big blind [$0.50]
Seat 1 : Hero with $50.00.
Seat 2 : UTG with $39.15.
Seat 3 : UTG+1 with $35.50.
Seat 4 : MP1 with $12.25.
Seat 5 : MP2 with $39.25.
Seat 6 : MP3 with $61.35.
Seat 7 : CO with $27.35.
Seat 8 : BTN with $48.50.
Seat 9 : SB with $49.15.

** Dealing hole cards **

Dealt to Hero :

Sklansky group: 1
UTG: folds
UTG+1 raises $0.50 to $1
MP1: folds
MP2: folds
MP3: folds
CO calls [$1]
BTN: folds
SB calls [$0.75]
Hero calls [$0.50]

** Dealing Flop ** [Potsize: $4]

SB: checks
Hero: checks
UTG+1: checks
CO: checks

** Dealing Turn ** [Potsize: $4]

SB bets [$2]
Hero calls [$2]
UTG+1 raises $2.50 to $4.50
CO: folds
SB: folds
Hero calls [$2.50]

** Dealing River ** [Potsize: $15]

Hero: checks
UTG+1 bets [$5]
Hero ??

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum

Did you see villain minraise preflop before?

Preflop it's a prime squeezing spot indeed.

Flop is fine.

I would probably reraise turn. He could have a straight, but have a lot outs to a boat if needed, he could also semi bluff a flush or straight draw knowing the J is a scare card and the fact SB bets rather small and you only smooth call.

I hope you called river. You're beat most of the time, but with the super weak line you took and the good price you're given, it's worth taking a look. Kx, JT are certainly in his range here.

Certainly a call here is your only option the way it played out. Hmmm 33 hands isnt much but 36/12 is pretty terribad, given the price you have been offered, the fact you have a set, the opponent, its a cringe worthy call.

I wouldnt expect to be ahead too often here though.... but it warrants taking a look.

3bet preflop, and try to get this all in on the turn. Villain here is bad and will be calling with much worse.

raise SB's bet on turn, but as played, do not try to get this in on the turn after UTG+1 raises. he has AK there at least 75% of the time

think about what hands a 12% PFR raises UTG+1, doesn't c-bet flop, then raises this turn. you can pretty much narrow it to AK being the only hand that really fits. maaaybe he can have TT, maybe QQ as well (which obv beats you) but otherwise that's it. AK not only fits the line better but is much more likely statistically

so as played, call and try to fill up, check/fold that river. maybe reraise preflop but the biggest mistake is probably just calling the SB's turn bet. otherwise it's fine

combuboom said:

think about what hands a 12% PFR raises UTG+1

Click to expand...

Who says a 36/12 knows about position? Now that HEM gives positional stats for VPIP/PFR, you'd be amazed how many fishy players have nearly identical stats UTG and on the BTN.

maybe, but he's still probably not raising JT there. he's limping, because the disparity between the two is large. you can also, even with the small sample of hands, make a solid assumption that he's the type to limp 66. and these hands that actually made something on the flop are more likely to bet than AK. and again, AK is statistically way more likely. also, the raise size on the turn certainly doesn't appear afraid of straight cards

point is that if you're trying to get this in on the turn after UTG+1 raises, you're generally burning money. this is a pretty specific hand-reading line that vanquish and i have discussed before, and i'm pretty sure he'd agree with me

Why did you not raise PF to clear the decks and build the pot? Even if you put villain on AK, you are still a slight favorite heads up. Am I missing something here?

u should always take info by reraisin ur opponents, this is one of this cases i wish u better luck next time, he may catch runner runner, i woulda fold that river.

because if he folds with all worse hands and calls with a range of hands that has us in trouble, reraising is bad

at least, i'd assume that's his logic. given this guy's stats, he's probably calling 3bets too light so i think 3betting pre is good, but i don't badly fault playing it for set value/deception against certain opponents. just realize, due to aforementioned concept, that 3betting JJ and even QQ against certain players is bad because some will be folding everything we want in the hand and continuing with everything we're crushed by

I did flat this preflop bet because if I 3bet here, whats the plan if I get raised again, especially against the UTG+1 who originally min-raised? I'd be in a crappy bad situation.

RESULT:

I flat called the river.

Villain turned over AA for the straight.

See? Told you to raise turn...

Well, if min-raise in EP = AA, you've learned very valuable knowledge for a cheap price. Hope you took the note.

Well, yes, agree, w/ re-re-raise, you would be in a crappy bad situation, but you would have known it right away, and potentially saved yourself from the worse situation you found yourself in on river.

raise SB's bet on turn, but as played, do not try to get this in on the turn after UTG+1 raises. he has AK there at least 75% of the time

think about what hands a 12% PFR raises UTG+1, doesn't c-bet flop, then raises this turn. you can pretty much narrow it to AK being the only hand that really fits. maaaybe he can have TT, maybe QQ as well (which obv beats you) but otherwise that's it. AK not only fits the line better but is much more likely statistically

so as played, call and try to fill up, check/fold that river. maybe reraise preflop but the biggest mistake is probably just calling the SB's turn bet. otherwise it's fine

Click to expand...

I don't really understand your logic on this one. I can see if a solid player does this then I probably wouldn't stack, but villain is a 36/12 here minraising UTG + 1. He's got a super super huge range here on this turn.

fwiw, i didn't notice he minraised. idk how much that changes, but it's possible he wouldn't do that with AK at all

i still think in general, a player with a somewhat tight range taking this line is screaming AK. him not c-betting AA and then tiny-raising that turn is really bizarre and you can't really count on something like that more than a small fraction of the time imo.

if the PF minraise indicates a somewhat wider range, or at least one that doesn't include AK, then that changes things a bit

3 bet preflop. JJ is def not gonna play well in a 4 way pot.