50NL against a LAG

xCashin_inx · May 3, 2008

pokerstars Game #17177135872: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/05/03 - 16:16:58 (ET)
Table 'Caupolican II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: schwoazfoara ($28 in chips)
Seat 2: xCaShiN_iNx ($35.80 in chips)
Seat 3: jafio ($28.25 in chips)
Seat 4: tipperkongen ($41.25 in chips)
Seat 5: thorsi ($90.15 in chips)
Seat 6: jollyJoker76 ($47.75 in chips)
thorsi: posts small blind $0.25
jollyJoker76: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to xCaShiN_iNx [Jh Jd]
schwoazfoara: raises $2.50 to $3
xCaShiN_iNx: raises $3 to $6
jafio: folds
tipperkongen: folds
thorsi: folds
jollyJoker76: folds
schwoazfoara: calls $3
*** FLOP *** [Ks 6s 4s]
schwoazfoara: bets $6
xCaShiN_iNx: calls $6
*** TURN *** [Ks 6s 4s] [3h]
schwoazfoara: checks

Hero?????

odinscott · May 3, 2008

Bet if you dont think that he is slow playing you. Get him off the hand, especially if you dont want him to see another card. I would think that he bet after the flop, trying to get you to fold, then decided that he had already lost enough on this pot. It could be that he has a flush, but a middle one or he needs another card to make it, it could be middle pair, either way he doesnt seem strong. I would throw out something like $9 and try to get him to lay it down.

Dr_Dick · May 3, 2008

Tough situation...why minraise with JJ against a LAG?

Well your question is about what you do on this turn after LAG slows down when a 3h hits...you have a 1/3rd of your stack invested, with an overcard, a flush draw you can't hit, and a straight draw you can't hit.

If LAG had the flush and bet it on the flop then I doubt he checks it when a 3h comes out. If LAG had a straight draw and hit with the 3h I doubt it changes him slowing down. LAG did call the minraise, so he may in fact actually have a K, but you calling has made him slow down. And there is nothing to say LAGs don't ever get dealt AA,KK....

I think your done here...given your reraise your going to have a tough time convincing LAG you flopped a flush. There is no way he puts you on a straight either. He has you on a big PP as anybody would. LAG is not going to be pushed off this pot, but is not willing to invest anymore.

I bet the hand goes check/check and LAG turns over Kx

tosborn · May 3, 2008

Situations like this I'm not hardly even playing an opponent. Villain has put out a continuation bet that we have flat called. He has shut down on the turn. If we bet out here, I would guess that villain will fold almost half the time.

xCashin_inx · May 4, 2008

Just to let everyone know how this fabulous hand turned out....

I pushed all in on the turn after he checked to me, he insta called, the river came 2s , he turns over Ad7s and wins with a flush.

SavagePenguin · May 4, 2008

I'd bet. The check seems suspicious. If you called the $6 and he had a hand that he wanted action with, he'd have (or at least should have) raised the turn.

I'm pretty sure that he has a a flush draw. Maybe the Ace of spades, and a non-King face card. As/Qx? As/Js? As/Tx maybe if he's loose (because he raised UTG).

Assuming he's drawing with two overs, one being a spade, it's pretty much a coin flip on the flop. In fact, he was a slight favorite. But that 3h on the turn wasn't likely to help him, and cut his odds of winning in half. So now you're the big favorite.

He has $16 left and the pot is $24, right?

Shove. Then pray you're the 2/1 favorite.

Then scream and tear your hair out when he shows his slow-played K/9.

SavagePenguin · May 4, 2008

xCashin_inx said:
Just to let everyone know how this fabulous hand turned out....

I pushed all in on the turn after he checked to me, he insta called, the river came 2s , he turns over Ad7s and wins with a flush.

Ick.

Wait longer to post the results please.

You made the right move. It just didn't work out.

Dr_Dick · May 4, 2008

With perfect information it turns out villain did make the right decision to call the all-in. Villain is 32% to win the pot, meaning on average he wins $18...a loss of $10. If villain folds he loses $12.

Not endorsing either side here...just decided to run the numbers.

zachvac · May 5, 2008

SavagePenguin said:
Ick.

Wait longer to post the results please.

You made the right move. It just didn't work out.

Shoving the turn with an overcard on the board is "the right move"? Sorry but the move was absolutely horrible. You got lucky he called with something you were ahead of and then he sucked out. It's poker, it happens.

fwiw I'd check behind on the turn. Play it for pot control. Betting isn't terrible either but you don't want to be stacking here.

zachvac · May 5, 2008

oh yeah, and reload preflop.

xCashin_inx · May 5, 2008

zachvac said:
Shoving the turn with an overcard on the board is "the right move"? Sorry but the move was absolutely horrible. You got lucky he called with something you were ahead of and then he sucked out. It's poker, it happens.

fwiw I'd check behind on the turn. Play it for pot control. Betting isn't terrible either but you don't want to be stacking here.

Its clear he doesnt have a K after he checked the turn, with AK or any playable hand with a K he is going to bet there. Im sure I have him beat here unless he has AA or QQ and I really dont put him on either of those hands. I saying best bet is AQ or AJ and my best move is to shove.

Why do you think its horrible to shove when im fairly sure I have the best hand?

switch0723 · May 5, 2008

^^^ Why would a bare king bet that turn? ever heard of pot control? he could have a hand like k,j with no spade, so wants to keep the pot small. Or he could even have a hand like queens with a spade where he once again wants to keep the pot small.

You dont shove there because most of the time you will only be called by a hand that beats you. You are missing out on value from smaller pocket pairs for example. By checking, you allow hands less than yours to bet river so that you can extract more value. A shove is horrible

zachvac · May 5, 2008

xCashin_inx said:
Its clear he doesnt have a K after he checked the turn, with AK or any playable hand with a K he is going to bet there. Im sure I have him beat here unless he has AA or QQ and I really dont put him on either of those hands. I saying best bet is AQ or AJ and my best move is to shove.

Why do you think its horrible to shove when im fairly sure I have the best hand?

1. What hand that you beat calls (aside from the idiot who decides to chase the flush draw which is an extremely small part of his range)? Hate to break it to you, but kings do check that turn, hell I would probably check it with AK for pot control. There are 3 spades out there, I don't want to spew chips away. And then there's the made flush trying to slowplay you and convince you he doesn't have it (which would have worked perfectly).

2. Just because you're ahead, why would you shove?

Example: You pick up AA UTG. You know you have the best hand. Do you shove here? If not why'd you shove in this scenario when most likely no better hand is calling?

Basically you're turning this hand into a bluff. You've got JJ which has decent showdown value in this situation (but not good enough to build a big pot) and you're literally reducing it to a bluff. Ignore the results, because that will happen only once in a long time. You fold out some kings, hell AK may even fold here. You are literally turning your hand into a bluff. And you want to do that with your worst hands, not your marginal hands that actually have some showdown value.

Jagsti · May 5, 2008

Please r/r pf with a man's size bet for the love of god. Min r/r if you hate money imo.

Jagsti · May 5, 2008

Jagsti;788060 Min r/r if you hate money imo.[/quote said:
Unless of course your playing in a CC ring game, were min r/r are like 7th level thinking AFAIK .

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50NL against a LAG

xCashin_inx

Rock Star

odinscott

Legend

Dr_Dick

Rock Star

tosborn

Visionary

xCashin_inx

Rock Star

SavagePenguin

Put the win in penguin

SavagePenguin

Put the win in penguin

Dr_Dick

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zachvac

Legend

zachvac

Legend

xCashin_inx

Rock Star

switch0723

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zachvac

Legend

Jagsti

I'm sweet enough!

Jagsti

I'm sweet enough!

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