[50NL 6max] WA/WB again

BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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Another WA/WB spot on the flop. Once again, should I put in a value bet on turn or river? Villain is TAG at 15/12/inf.

$0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
UTG: $48
CO: $53.60
Hero (BTN): $67.45
SB: $36.85
BB: $52.25

Pre-Flop: Q
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Q
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dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG raises to $1.75, CO raises to $6, Hero calls $6, 2 folds, UTG calls $4.25

Flop: ($18.75) K
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6
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K
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(3 Players)
UTG checks, CO bets $13, Hero calls $13, UTG folds

Turn: ($44.75) 8
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(2 Players)
CO checks, Hero checks

River: ($44.75) 8
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(2 Players)
CO checks, Hero checks
 
Lopos

Lopos

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My suggestion probably inst worth much because I still play super micro stakes but ill throw in my 2c anyways.

I just don't see a TAG player Checking back to back streets with a K in that spot. You called his bet on the flop with the KK6 rainbow flop, with no draw. Imo this looks like a pocket pair that is checking back to back streets in fear of a bare king. I would bet the river and prey he doesn't have aces, because This looks a lot like 99 - JJ.
 
Jagsti

Jagsti

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You gotta bet one of them streets for value imo. I usually make a river bet there Belgo.
 
BelgoSuisse

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You gotta bet one of them streets for value imo. I usually make a river bet there Belgo.

yeah, I hated my play as soon as I clicked on the check button. I'm auto-playing the WA/WB a bit too much and need to think more about the specifics of the hand here.

What kind of bet size would you go for?
 
Jagsti

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I like just under half pot in this situation, it leaves him with a little bit left. Maybe $18 or so.
 
BelgoSuisse

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Showdown:

Villain has TT and we win this pot, but can't be happy as we clearly missed value on the river here.
 
Last edited:
F

feitr

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Don't want to bet turn here, but i'd definitely throw out half a pot bet (probably $20 here) on the river. There simply are no hands out there that have you beat that villain would check twice and villain's range is really quite polarized towards 99-JJ sort of hands. If it makes you feel any better, i doubt that a TAG villain like that would pay you off on the river. You obviously have something and your something probably beats TT.
 
widowmaker89

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I dont think this is as much as a WA/WB as everyone seems to label every hand. Technically its true of about every flop, but what I think is different is the value we can gain. If we bet here villian isnt thinking "well he obviously has a K". In your other example KK vs A high flop, there isnt really much value here because and A is very likely and its going to be very difficult to get value out of hands you beat, with 2 kings on the flop pretty much any PP you can get value from since they shouldnt really put you on a king.

I do check the turn for pot control, as I dont think we can get 2 streets of value anyway, but do fire a value bet on the river.

Sorry to ramble but I think most people here put way to many hands in the WA/WB situation. True, specific hands will almost always bring a WA/WB but villains view of your range makes many of these hands not really WA/WB or at least shouldnt be approached that way.
 
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feitr

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Technically one could say this is WA/WB, because you are either way ahead or way behind. You are never close equity wise on this flop. That said, you are right in that this shouldn't really be viewed as a WA/WB situation. Since no one can really represent a K that well here you CAN get action from hands that you crush such as 99-JJ, because alot of your range tanked on this flop. This is obviously completely different to having KK on an A high flop, where the A is easily represented and also a combinatorially likely hand . As a result you aren't really getting action from villain's range that you beat (other than in bluffs) because of the fact that the A hits a large portion of your range and villain isn't going to want to continue with mid pps etc.
 
BelgoSuisse

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Sorry to ramble but I think most people here put way to many hands in the WA/WB situation. True, specific hands will almost always bring a WA/WB but villains view of your range makes many of these hands not really WA/WB or at least shouldnt be approached that way.

I actually agree. I guess that's why i've been posting those three WA/WB like hands. I realized I play those too much in automatic mode
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Yeah, this isn't a WA/WB, its a situation where we crush villain's range, but when we're behind, we're way behind. There's a difference. Most WA/WB hands we don't have a giant equity advantage.
 
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