50nl 6max ... Set of Queens @ river

icemonkey9

icemonkey9

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Villain is a 54/4/1 after 26 hands. No reads he's had the big stack since i've sat down but he just seems like a guy that likes to call through a hand.

***** Game number #22812573227 *****
Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/12/11 2:03:41 ET
Table 'Gase III' 6-max
Seat 2 (BTN) has the button.
SB posts small blind [$0.25]
BB posts big blind [$0.50]
Seat 1 : JabbaDia with $54.30.
Seat 2 : BTN with $82.65.
Seat 3 : SB with $117.80.
Seat 4 : BB with $50.75.
Seat 5 : UTG with $97.75.
Seat 6 : Hero with $50.50.
hand.pl

** Dealing hole cards **
Dealt to Hero :
:qh4: :qd4:
Sklansky group: 1
UTG: folds
Hero raises $1.25 to $1.75
JabbaDia: folds
BTN calls [$1.75]
SB: folds
BB: folds
** Dealing Flop ** [Potsize: $4.25]
:2d4: :qc4: :3c4:
Hero bets [$2.50]
BTN calls [$2.50]
** Dealing Turn ** [Potsize: $9.25]
:4d4:
Hero bets [$7]
BTN calls [$7]
** Dealing River ** [Potsize: $23.25]
:8c4:
Hero bets [$20]
BTN raises $51.40 to $71.40 [ all-in ]
Hero >?????

Are we seriously folding this?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Absolutely. He's not aggressive enough to bluff raise you. There's an argument that he could be value raising worse, but I don't see why he would wait until the flush river to raise a set or two pair.

I don't like potting river either.
 
icemonkey9

icemonkey9

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Yeah i think potting the river and not half-potting it (?) was the mistake on my part in the hand.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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yeah a blocking bet is much better here. You're getting calls from most pairs, can get a possible straight to slow down and just flat, and he won't bluff raise you often if at all, so you can let go of the hand should he do so.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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yeah, i'd bet slightly more on flop and turn (mostly as a consequence of the pot having gotten bigger), then slightly less on river.

As played, if you fold river, he most likely chased with incorrect implied odds. If you call you make his chasing correct.
 
joos

joos

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i bet 3-4 on flop and then almost pot the river. wanna build a pot and have easier time on river
 
B

baudib1

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At these levels flush chasers always pay, so make sure we charge them. Then lay it down when they get there.

A check-call is possible if this were an opponent capable of making a big bluff on a scare card. I agree that this line from your standard passive calling station is a nut-like hand.
 
tenbob

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How often and with what range does a 54/4 call a shove ?

I shove the turn lots and lots here against guys like this, he has a piece of the board, prooven by his flop call. He likes to call bets, prooven by his stats. Make his call the ultimate one, really think he will fold a queen or a rag 2 pair or even a draw ?
 
B

baudib1

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In tournament play you can make argument for shoving but in cash games you should simply price him out on his draw.
 
jjbish

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He obv is a station and the smallish flop cbet ( why not pot, or at least a lil bigger, against a station to get max value?) He sees it as cheap to chase and then putting 7 into 16 ( again. It's prolly your standard, but he's a station and will pay) on turn is same to him. Then he hits. sigh (I'm used to it in plo)

Easy fold IMO, with his aggro factor. Unless!!! you've seen him do this on a scare board, which you obv hadn't in so few hands.
 
widowmaker89

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In tournament play you can make argument for shoving but in cash games you should simply price him out on his draw.

I am not sure I follow this logic at all. While you do want to price them into making a poor call, if you think they will call an all in then thats the worst price you can give them and would be the best thing to do. Now if you think he will fold his draw if you push then you would want to bet the maximum amount you feel he will call you. This is generally true in tournys as well except for the push is usually not an overbet deeper into tournys.
 
B

baudib1

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In tournament play it is an imperative to win the big pots that you play. That's why late in tournaments you are not really playing small pairs from any position unless you are deepstacked enough or desperate enough to push them. I.E. with an M of 10 you would never limp 55 in EP or really even play it at all. In cash games you can certainly play them profitably.

Thus, in tournament play, you will often see overbets with strong but vulnerable hands, because many many times you just want to push them off the pot (generally they won't call), but sometimes they do. I.E., I have 22 BBs and raise 3xBB in EP with AQo, get one caller from CO. Flop comes QT7 with two spades. The pot is just 7.5 BBs and I put villain (who has 24 BBs left) on suited broadways. I overbet the pot with 19BBs and he folds. Normally I could just bet 2/3-3/4 pot but if I do that here and he gets there on the turn or river, I am left with a microstack. Tournament play is more about money going in preflop and on the flop; playing the turn and river is sort of a foreign concept for MTT/SNG players.

In a cash game you don't have to worry about felting someone and really the fear of getting felted isn't the same, we are almost never going to be this shortstacked unless we really suck.
 
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