50NL - 62o Full House on River

becomingpoker

becomingpoker

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 22, 2008
Total posts
130
Chips
0
Cake - .25/.50 NL
Hand #1519011709000418: Pebble Beach (6-Max) 11709
Seat 1: $tra*** (7.75 in chips)
Seat 2: HERO(74.55 in chips)
Seat 3: ronl*** (17.10 in chips)
Seat 8: smoo*** (30.85 in chips)
Seat 9: blot*** (75.65 in chips)
Seat 10: Mike*** (58.40 in chips)
$tra***: posts small blind $0.25
HERO: posts big blind $0.50
Dealt to HERO [ 6c 2h ]
ronl***: folds
smoo***: calls
blot***: folds
Mike***: calls
$tra***: calls
HERO: checks
@@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 5c 3h 6d ]
$tra***: checks
HERO: bets $1.25
smoo***: folds
Mike***: raises to $2.50
$tra***: calls
HERO: calls
# # # TURN # # # [ 2d ]
$tra***: checks
HERO: checks
Mike***: checks
&&& RIVER &&& [ 2s ]
$tra***: is all in 4.7500
HERO: raises to $9.50
Mike***: raises to $38
HERO: ???????????????
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Total posts
5,799
Awards
1
Chips
1
I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking if you should fold a full house when someone goes all-in on a board that contains four to a straight? If so, the answer is no.
 
premierplayer

premierplayer

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Total posts
504
Chips
0
what are u asking? if you call? Im not folding a boat here. Your boat is technically the best hand unless he has 22 which if he does well thats that.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
May 25, 2005
Total posts
5,587
Chips
0
Difficult, you are behind 33, 66 and 55 and ahead of overpairs and anything with a 4 in it. The river action unfortunately makes the first group much more likely than the second, so a very reluctant fold for me.

Any reason you didn't bet the turn?
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
May 25, 2005
Total posts
5,587
Chips
0
what are u asking? if you call? Im not folding a boat here. Your boat is technically the best hand unless he has 22 which if he does well thats that.
Er, no?

You can safely rule out 22.
 
becomingpoker

becomingpoker

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 22, 2008
Total posts
130
Chips
0
what are u asking? if you call? Im not folding a boat here. Your boat is technically the best hand unless he has 22 which if he does well thats that.

Well 22 isn't the only hand that beats mine. 55,33 or 66 would beat me. 22 not possible (two 2's on the board and one in my hand).

But anyways, both of your posts do answer my question I guess. I did of course put him all-in for the $17 or so dollars he had left behind. The end result was very unexpected. He was holding 33. No raise preflop w/ it but maybe I should have put him on a small pocket pair like that.

I wasn't trying to hide a bad beat post just wondering if anyone could get away from this hand knowing that Villian is a VERY solid player who would not bet like this unless he had a strong hand.

I guess it was just my cooler for the night.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Total posts
5,799
Awards
1
Chips
1
Quick combination break-down:

Sets:

66: 1
55: 3
33: 3

Sum: 7

Single card straights:
4*35 = 140
44: 12.

152 combos that we beat, and 7 that we don't. I agree that his range is weighted towards a full house, but that weight has to be by 20 in order for him to be more likely to have a bigger full house. Admittedly, most people are more likely to play 5-5 than 94o, but we should also note that the above combinations don't include the possibility of him having A-2 and thinking that his trips are the nuts. It also doesn't factor in the pot odds that he's laying us.

This is a really trivial call unless you know something about the opponent that I don't.
 
becomingpoker

becomingpoker

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 22, 2008
Total posts
130
Chips
0
Difficult, you are behind 33, 66 and 55 and ahead of overpairs and anything with a 4 in it. The river action unfortunately makes the first group much more likely than the second, so a very reluctant fold for me.

Any reason you didn't bet the turn?

4 to the straight is why I did not bet there. But after all the checks and the rivered boat I felt pretty good.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
May 25, 2005
Total posts
5,587
Chips
0
This is a really trivial call unless you know something about the opponent that I don't.
Well I said fold, and I would have been right. I suppose you could say he wouldn't have posted it if he hadn't got beat, but the opponents river action doesn't look like he's got a straight.

The river action (on a 4 to a straight board) went - all-in from short stack (good bluff position, so could be anything) then raise from OP (no fold equity there, so you've got to put him on a straight at the minimum) and then a big re-raise. I cant see any reason why someone would re-raise with a straight, when surely they would only be called by a full house or splitting?

I suppose you could add 23 and 25 to holdings that you would beat, but these wouldn't call preflop, so only 33, 55 and 66 look possible here.
 
becomingpoker

becomingpoker

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 22, 2008
Total posts
130
Chips
0
Well I said fold, and I would have been right. I suppose you could say he wouldn't have posted it if he hadn't got beat, but the opponents river action doesn't look like he's got a straight.

The river action (on a 4 to a straight board) went - all-in from short stack (good bluff position, so could be anything) then raise from OP (no fold equity there, so you've got to put him on a straight at the minimum) and then a big re-raise. I cant see any reason why someone would re-raise with a straight, when surely they would only be called by a full house or splitting?

I suppose you could add 23 and 25 to holdings that you would beat, but these wouldn't call preflop, so only 33, 55 and 66 look possible here.

You definitely would have been right.

Maybe my game has further to go than I thought. Even after your logic, which is very sound I must say, I still don't think I could have laid this down.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Total posts
5,799
Awards
1
Chips
1
I cant see any reason why someone would re-raise with a straight, when surely they would only be called by a full house or splitting?
I think it's dangerous to assume that our opponents think the same way we do.

Not at all improbable thought process for villain:

"Woo, my turn slowplay worked! ALL-IN!"
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Chips
0
A fold here is just absurd. FP gives exactly the reasons why.
 
zachvac

zachvac

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Total posts
7,832
Chips
0
Well I said fold, and I would have been right.
This part is irrelevant, we don't want to be results-oriented.



The river action (on a 4 to a straight board) went - all-in from short stack (good bluff position, so could be anything)
Agreed.

then raise from OP (no fold equity there, so you've got to put him on a straight at the minimum)
Right about no fold equity, but trips isn't doing this? Remember it's 25nl, we're not playing against the brightest players in the world.

and then a big re-raise. I cant see any reason why someone would re-raise with a straight, when surely they would only be called by a full house or splitting?
First off 47 does this every single time, and 47 probably plays this on the flop the same as well, assuming he would limp with it. Second off the thought process is sort of "I have a hand, let's get money in the pot". I have to agree though that most aren't raising there without a straight, because even a moron would see that with 4 to a straight on the board they shouldn't shove with trips, but FP went over the combinations. Any time there's 4 to a straight or 4 to a flush on the board I am never folding a boat unless it's an opponent I know is good. Also, look at the odds we're getting.

I suppose you could add 23 and 25 to holdings that you would beat, but these wouldn't call preflop, so only 33, 55 and 66 look possible here.

It was limped preflop, at 25nl you'll see so many hands shown down with hands that "should" be preflop folds. Hell you'll see hands like 23 call preflop raises. You really can't rule out any hand. You can probably weight it heavier towards pocket pairs, because more people would limp preflop with a pocket pair than 23, but you'll see so many hands you beat here, I think this has to be a call.
 
becomingpoker

becomingpoker

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 22, 2008
Total posts
130
Chips
0
Right about no fold equity, but trips isn't doing this? Remember it's 25nl, we're not playing against the brightest players in the world.

It was limped preflop, at 25nl you'll see so many hands shown down with hands that "should" be preflop folds. Hell you'll see hands like 23 call preflop raises. You really can't rule out any hand. You can probably weight it heavier towards pocket pairs, because more people would limp preflop with a pocket pair than 23, but you'll see so many hands you beat here, I think this has to be a call.

Does anything change since it's really 50NL or not?
 
theskillzdatklls

theskillzdatklls

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Total posts
283
Chips
0
i would have called his raise, rather than put him all in. 7 total complete possible hand combinations beat you.. however his bet shows tremendous strength. ideally he had a top end str8 -overpairs = unlikely. pushing him all in wouldn't make much sense because in my opinion there is not much more to earn.. just lose.
 
arkadiy

arkadiy

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 28, 2007
Total posts
2,378
Chips
0
Well I said fold, and I would have been right. I suppose you could say he wouldn't have posted it if he hadn't got beat, but the opponents river action doesn't look like he's got a straight.

The river action (on a 4 to a straight board) went - all-in from short stack (good bluff position, so could be anything) then raise from OP (no fold equity there, so you've got to put him on a straight at the minimum) and then a big re-raise. I cant see any reason why someone would re-raise with a straight, when surely they would only be called by a full house or splitting?

I suppose you could add 23 and 25 to holdings that you would beat, but these wouldn't call preflop, so only 33, 55 and 66 look possible here.


I believe that this fold would have been fairly horrible. Odds of him actually having 33, 55, 66 are very slim and to fold a full house on a board like this is absurd. That's like when you have quads and someone has higher quads, you might put him on those higher quads but there is no way in hell you are folding.

I feel your posts are result oriented here :rolleyes:

Also, he could hold 47 and think that you just have a 4, he'd be all-in here with 47 or a 4 in my opinion.
 
V

viking999

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Total posts
512
Chips
0
Against a decent textbook player, he's never going to have just a 4. But this is .25/.50, so...... it's likely he's not so logical or straightforward. You only make money off of 47, 23, and 25 against a textbook player. A good aggressive player might also be raising a bare 4 to get you to fold a bare 4. If he were a very tight or very passive player, I think you could fold this. Without reads though, I think it's a pretty big mistake to fold. There's a very good chance he's just a donk with a 4.
 
V

viking999

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Total posts
512
Chips
0
As a side note, does anyone fold flop here? Facing a raise and a call on that flop, I think there's a pretty good chance that both the made hand and draw are crushed. It seems to me like one of those spots where you can only win a small pot or lose a big pot.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
May 25, 2005
Total posts
5,587
Chips
0
I believe that this fold would have been fairly horrible. Odds of him actually having 33, 55, 66 are very slim and to fold a full house on a board like this is absurd. That's like when you have quads and someone has higher quads, you might put him on those higher quads but there is no way in hell you are folding.

I feel your posts are result oriented here :rolleyes:

I posted the 3 hands I thought opponent was most likely to have, based on his betting actions. I can't be result orientated if i posted that before i knew the results, can I?:rolleyes:

I'd probably fold less hands than most people on this thread, but i'm happy being the odd one out on this one - no other hand other than the 3 pairs makes any sense to me.
 
pedroman7

pedroman7

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Total posts
352
Chips
0
I would be puting him on 33, 55 , 66, 42, or 47. You have a 6 so 66 is less likely and most people wouldn't play 47 or 24. So would say with the min raise on the flop and check on the turn 33 or 55 are most likely his holding. Maybe he could play any 4 this way but i dont see it. With that siad I still think you have to call because there so mush money in the pot and there is a enough of a chance he is just a donk push a str8 here.
 
arkadiy

arkadiy

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 28, 2007
Total posts
2,378
Chips
0
I posted the 3 hands I thought opponent was most likely to have, based on his betting actions. I can't be result orientated if i posted that before i knew the results, can I?:rolleyes:

I'd probably fold less hands than most people on this thread, but i'm happy being the odd one out on this one - no other hand other than the 3 pairs makes any sense to me.

You are being result oriented because you know if this is being posted, then he lost this hand. You know that 3 hands beat him, so you pretty much just said that he has one of those hands. I could've done the same thing here (and to almost any other thread in this section).
 
Top