$50NL 6-max: playing with maniacs

dcor · Oct 21, 2008

so I'm playing very tight with about 20 bucks in chips, 6 seater with 3 maniacs.....this table is getting out of control to the point of going all in on almost every hand......with hands like hard flush draws with no over card outs..... one of them who is playing and raising every hand. I tighten up, and eventually get dealt AKo in mid position. Maniac one has already raised and has two callers. So I bet the pot in order to try and skim down the competition....the one maniac who has been raising every hand reraises and causes two folds. So I get the decision to call an all in with AKo. I call and he shows AQo.....Queen comes on flop, and blanks the rest of the way....my question is, whats the correct play here....call the original raise and deal with the other idiots? Leave the table? Fold AK haha? Or just Quit Poker? What could I have done differently strategically.....for the most part before this, playing tight allowed me to double my stack while I chipped away at them....one hand takes that all away....one of the reasons I dont like all ins with ak suited or not.......

Stick66 · Oct 21, 2008

Buy-in for the full amount or try 25NL.

Richyl2008 · Oct 21, 2008

Kind of an awkward stack size to be playing with. Your probably better off playing full stacked or shortstacked. Other than that you got your money in with this best hand, so I dont see the problem there...

Ronaldadio · Oct 21, 2008

The correct play is what you did. You got your chips in when u were about 70/30 fav.

The other option is "If you can`t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"

dweezel · Oct 21, 2008

If you were not comfortable at the table , why were you there ???
By not buying in for the full amount you give the impression of scared money,
or of one of those hit and run players. Either way ripe for the pickin' as it were.
If I don't feel comfortable at a table I go to one I feel good at. I mean why not.
IMO if you hit your hand and won, you would have stayed and eventually lost your buy-in anyway.

BelgoSuisse · Oct 21, 2008

Table full of maniacs means

1) $$$$$. This is a extremely +EV situation. Which means you absolutely need to buy-in for a full stack.

2) High Variance. So you need to be very properly rolled to handle the higher swings of a maniacal table. I wouldn't sit at a maniacal table unless i have something like 50 buy-ins bankroll, i.e. $2500 here. I guess that's not the case if you are worried about losing $20.

KyleJRM · Oct 21, 2008

The correct play is to dodge the queen (and the broadway straight or losing four-flush).

venividivici · Oct 21, 2008

Everyone has played those maniacs and i really really like them (one of those maniacs made 6 rebuys just for me)

If you don`t like the table, just leave go to other observe the game and sit in. If those maniacs are using bankroll managment (playing 1% or 1.25 %) they don`t care about 2 or 3 buy ins or maybe they are just donors.
No one forced you to stay on the table right?

i desire love · Oct 21, 2008

You made the right... thats poker... If you wanna quit after seeing AQ beat AK, well yes u should stop poker. It will happen, but youll win 7 out of 10 so if you continue making the right play youll end up a winner at the end

BR Managment FTW

SavagePenguin · Oct 21, 2008

dcor said:
So I get the decision to call an all in with AKo. I call and he shows AQo...
What could I have done differently strategically...

You get the maximum amount of money into the pot while you're he's only 23% to win and you want to know what you could have done differently?

One thing comes to mind: Post this in the bad beat section.

zachvac · Oct 21, 2008

Richyl2008 said:
Kind of an awkward stack size to be playing with. Your probably better off playing full stacked or shortstacked. Other than that you got your money in with this best hand, so I dont see the problem there...

Care to elaborate on this? Remember that your stack is the effective stacks opponents have to play you with, so if they think it's awkward it's going to give them trouble as well. If you're used to the play and can use stack size to make better decisions than them why is it bad to do? I've seen comments like this many times here and I don't understand it.

Now personally I'd want a full stack here because opponents are making BIG mistakes and I want the big mistakes to be for the most amount of money. But if you're going to advocate playing shortstacked as a valid alternative why is playing with this stack size a problem?

dcor · Oct 21, 2008

It for one wasnt scared money...........I was just going to the tight, passive aggressive route....I had been shortstacked and doubled up to almost the max buy in.....so I was just playing careful.....thats all....the question was more for the strategy that might have avoided the allin preflop......I know I have to call there, but I would have liked to see a raised flop versus an all in preflop.....that way I can fold.

Deltafrost · Oct 21, 2008

zachvac said:
Care to elaborate on this? Remember that your stack is the effective stacks opponents have to play you with, so if they think it's awkward it's going to give them trouble as well. If you're used to the play and can use stack size to make better decisions than them why is it bad to do? I've seen comments like this many times here and I don't understand it.

Now personally I'd want a full stack here because opponents are making BIG mistakes and I want the big mistakes to be for the most amount of money. But if you're going to advocate playing shortstacked as a valid alternative why is playing with this stack size a problem?

I think its more of an accepted thing. Most people dont advocate midstacking so its not commonly done. With short stacks you push with premiums either preflop or on the flop. With deep stacks theirs alot of postflop movements. But with midstacks you neither give your opponents way to good of odds to call nor do you have enough fold equity much later than flop.

Im not saying it cant be profitable, but shortstacking or buying in full would seem much more profitable. If he is used to the stack size then so be it, but on average its not something to advocate I think, because most people wont be able to adapt to it as readily as something that has been defined for them and shown to be profitable.

Steveg1976 · Oct 21, 2008

dcor said:
Maniac one has already raised and has two callers. So I bet the pot in order to try and skim down the competition....

Why not smooth call AKo in a maniacal game to prevent the akward shove/call? Calling prevents a reraise but not a raise behind by other players I understand that. From your posting it was the person who initially raised that shoved over the top of your raise. You had to have expected/suspected him to do that.

mrjohnson911 · Oct 21, 2008

i think u made just the correct play..
just calling pf, gives u no chance of knowing where ur at...
especially against maniacs who will lead out on the flop no matter what comes, u cant call with AK.. also especially against these players a push makes sense if you feel youre ahead (u dominated hiM) cause they cant "outplay/outflop" you anymore, without you having the chance of rebounding.... also AK sucks in a multihanded pot, if theres a K, theres a good chance someone else flopped two pair or something, calling with marginal hands like KJ, KQ etc... especially shorthanded

Ronaldadio · Oct 22, 2008

dcor said:
It for one wasnt scared money...........I was just going to the tight, passive aggressive route....I had been shortstacked and doubled up to almost the max buy in.....so I was just playing careful.....thats all....the question was more for the strategy that might have avoided the allin preflop......I know I have to call there, but I would have liked to see a raised flop versus an all in preflop.....that way I can fold.

Don`t know if it is just me, but I still think u r missing the point.

Why would u want to avoid going all in when u r a big fav???

If the cards had been delt face up u would have pushed all in.

BelgoSuisse · Oct 22, 2008

dcor said:
I had been shortstacked and doubled up to almost the max buy in.....

fwiw, max buy in at 50NL is $50, not $20.

dcor said:
the question was more for the strategy that might have avoided the allin preflop......I know I have to call there, but I would have liked to see a raised flop versus an all in preflop.....that way I can fold.

If your ideal strategy with AK is to see a flop and play fit or fold, you're gonna be bleeding money because you only hit 1 flop out of 3 when you play unpaired hands.

aliengenius · Oct 22, 2008

I want to disagree with those saying you necessarily want the deepest stack possible in this situation. With a deep stack, there is the potential for these crazy players to not be making as big of mistakes due to implied odds: you can play many many more hands when stacks are all deep.

Add the given relative discomfort of the OP in this situation, and short stacking seems ideal. Just rebuy for the the min., and get the money in in the same situation (or better) again and again.

eNTy · Oct 22, 2008

BelgoSuisse said:
fwiw, max buy in at 50NL is $50, not $20.

I'm not sure but I think OP means he came to the table with $20 and had already doubled up to $40 something before this hand took place.

Could be wrong of course.

Ronaldadio · Oct 22, 2008

aliengenius said:
I want to disagree with those saying you necessarily want the deepest stack possible in this situation. With a deep stack, there is the potential for these crazy players to not be making as big of mistakes due to implied odds: you can play many many more hands when stacks are all deep.

Add the given relative discomfort of the OP in this situation, and short stacking seems ideal. Just rebuy for the the min., and get the money in in the same situation (or better) again and again.

I agree and disagree !!!

Both points here are valid, but I do think, going by the tone of the OP, they should have simply left the table.

I still need clarification by the OP as to why he wants to find a way of folding when a 70/30 fav (AQ v AK) or am I picking up the question wrong.

nevadanick · Oct 22, 2008

dcor said:
so I'm playing very tight with about 20 bucks in chips, 6 seater with 3 maniacs.....this table is getting out of control to the point of going all in on almost every hand......with hands like hard flush draws with no over card outs..... one of them who is playing and raising every hand. I tighten up, and eventually get dealt AKo in mid position. Maniac one has already raised and has two callers. So I bet the pot in order to try and skim down the competition....the one maniac who has been raising every hand reraises and causes two folds. So I get the decision to call an all in with AKo. I call and he shows AQo.....Queen comes on flop, and blanks the rest of the way....my question is, whats the correct play here....call the original raise and deal with the other idiots? Leave the table? Fold AK haha? Or just Quit Poker? What could I have done differently strategically.....for the most part before this, playing tight allowed me to double my stack while I chipped away at them....one hand takes that all away....one of the reasons I dont like all ins with ak suited or not.......

What's the prob? Your raise to maniac one got exactly what you said you wanted. It 'skimmed down the competition' - to the 2 of you. He then outdrew you.

Myself? I'm off the table. There are too many options of other tables on most sites. No one holds a gun to your head to stay. I prefer to play poker, not all-in luckem.

dcor · Oct 22, 2008

Ronaldadio said:
I agree and disagree !!!

Both points here are valid, but I do think, going by the tone of the OP, they should have simply left the table.

I still need clarification by the OP as to why he wants to find a way of folding when a 70/30 fav (AQ v AK) or am I picking up the question wrong.

not looking for another way to fold it.........looking at a smarter suggestion besides dumping all your chips in preflop..........sure it was a cold deck but.....I'm just saying I dont like the all in preflop with ak move.......thats all.....at the time it seemed right though.....thought I was a huge favorite....thats it.

Sasskesse · Oct 23, 2008

Playing with maniacs NL increases variance so if you do it, do it short-stacked at limits lower than what you usually play.

bw07507 · Oct 23, 2008

It for one wasnt scared money...........I was just going to the tight, passive aggressive route....I had been shortstacked and doubled up to almost the max buy in.....so I was just playing careful.....thats all....the question was more for the strategy that might have avoided the allin preflop......I know I have to call there, but I would have liked to see a raised flop versus an all in preflop.....that way I can fold.

This is the definition of playing with scared money. You are basically posting asking how not to get sucked out on? If you knew your opponent was going to call an all in preflop with AQ and u had AK, why would u ever want to see a flop??

Ronaldadio · Oct 24, 2008

bw07507 said:
This is the definition of playing with scared money. You are basically posting asking how not to get sucked out on? If you knew your opponent was going to call an all in preflop with AQ and u had AK, why would u ever want to see a flop??

Very well put !!!

$50NL 6-max: playing with maniacs

dcor

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Stick66

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Richyl2008

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Ronaldadio

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dweezel

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BelgoSuisse

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KyleJRM

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venividivici

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i desire love

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SavagePenguin

Put the win in penguin

zachvac

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dcor

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Deltafrost

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Steveg1976

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mrjohnson911

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Ronaldadio

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BelgoSuisse

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aliengenius

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eNTy

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Ronaldadio

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nevadanick

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dcor

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