$50NL 6-max: C9 experiments with limping, gets into it with reg.

I've included stats on players who weren't in the hand, since it influenced my choice to limp.

CO: $51.81 (103.6 bb) - Nit, 17/10/23%(2.1) over 430 hands
BTN: $53.20 (106.4 bb) - Fish, 50/17/100% over 5 hands
SB: $100.40 (200.8 bb) - TAG Reg, 18/16/27%(3.3), Steal % = 29%, Fold to c-bet = 29%
BB: $29.50 (59 bb) - Just sat down
UTG: $18.95 (37.9 bb) - Fish, 60/0/0% over 6 hands
Hero (MP): $53.30 (106.6 bb) - Oh so sexeh, 28/24/38%(3.28)

Pre-Flop: Hero is MP with 10♥ J♥
UTG calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, 2 folds, SB raises to $3.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $3

Stuff happens, and I'm gonna give away the results on this one ...

Results: $107.60 pot ($3.50 rake)

flop comes and SB has

Am I close?

Jillychemung said:

flop comes and SB has

Am I close?

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Actually flop comes JJJTT, and villain had TT so I flop quads over quads.... you know... on those 5 card flops.

The point here isn't what happens on the flop, and I think that part of the hand plays itself.

What I think is worth discussing is preflop. The standard play is to isolate with position, however, I think limping has a ton of merit. Just wondered if you guys agree with me.

There's been all this anti-limping sentiment going around, I thought I'd put some of the "it depends" back in poker and find a spot where I actually think limping might be the best play.

i'm not anti limping behind at all. i rarely open-limp, but again, everything depends. i agree it has plenty of merit. so long as you play well postflop, which you obv do, it's definitely more +EV than folding because there's so much potential, so it's between that and an iso-raise. that's the first clear thing to establish

you can definitely limp and then if there's a raise, re-evaluate based on who has raised and make an informed decision. often you'll have a pretty good idea of their range even though it's nothing more than one raise. whereas if you raise yourself with a hand like that, you're often not going to be able to continue against a normal sized 3bet

I think alot of reason people are so into limping is because of the level of most people reading these.

For instance, most people mater preflop MUCH easier than postflop. so when you limp, you get yourself into much more difficult situations that most of us arent capable of maximizing EV during.

so for general advice: dont limp.

for someone who plays as laggy as you, or someone that is very competent postflop (you, chuck, etc come to mind) then limping could be a very good way to maximize ev.

Deltafrost said:

I think alot of reason people are so into limping is because of the level of most people reading these.

For instance, most people mater preflop MUCH easier than postflop. so when you limp, you get yourself into much more difficult situations that most of us arent capable of maximizing EV during.

so for general advice: dont limp.

for someone who plays as laggy as you, or someone that is very competent postflop (you, chuck, etc come to mind) then limping could be a very good way to maximize ev.

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It also leads to regs playing poorly against you. In general a limp is a donk with a mid-strength hand. I know I iso raise with most playable hands against limps. Sometimes I'll do that to a reg who does mix limp-raises and such in and it just makes it tough to play against. I've heard before that limping is probably a very profitable move in general if balanced but especially multitabling it's so tough to balance and just raising or folding doesn't make that huge of a difference in winrate while making the game much easier to play.

Oh, and I thought the results of this hand were kinda interesting. I think the fact that I limped made the reg do something silly...


Flop: ($8) 10♠ 6♠ 10♣ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7.15, SB raises to $24, Hero calls $16.85

Turn: ($56) A♦ (2 players)
SB bets $26, Hero calls $25.80 and is all-in

River: ($107.60) J♠ (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $107.60 pot ($3.50 rake)
SB showed A♣ Q♣ (two pairs, Aces and Tens) and won $0.00 (-$53.30 net)
Hero showed 10♥ J♥ (a full house, Tens full of Jacks) and won $104.10 ($50.80 net)

nh.

of course, this hand is essentially irrelevant to the overall profitability of your limping, unless you were trips-mining?

BelgoSuisse said:

nh.

of course, this hand is essentially irrelevant to the overall profitability of your limping, unless you were trips-mining?

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Yeah, trip tens mining. Trip jacks usually aren't good cuz your kicker is so low. And JTs just can't make much else.

And yeah, I agree that postflop there's really no analysis.

c9h13no3 said:

Yeah, trip tens mining. Trip jacks usually aren't good cuz your kicker is so low. And JTs just can't make much else.

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well, when your trip mining fails, JTs can still make a hell of a lot of marginal hands and decent to strong draws. How well you play those will end up deciding whether limp-calling is a decent preflop line or not.

BelgoSuisse said:

well, when your trip mining fails, JTs can still make a hell of a lot of marginal hands and decent to strong draws. How well you play those will end up deciding whether limp-calling is a decent preflop line or not.

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Not sure if you're kidding here as well but pretty sure he was being sarcastic .