$500 NLHE Full Ring: AKs, 4-way pot OOP

Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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Hello.


This hand came up yesterday while I was playing $2/$5. This option was not available when I selected stakes in thread. It was $2/$5, not $2/$4....


I am in SB. MP opens for $25, 1 or 2 calls before action reaches me. The people that called are loose gamblers. I suspect MP opener has a really big hand. Instinct.


I look down at Ac-Kc. I contemplate 3-betting. However, I will be OOP, and I hate playing OOP. Plus, I really have this feeling if I 3-bet MP will ram a 4 bet down my throat.

I call. 1 other dude calls from UTG+1. 5-way to flop.

UTG+1 has about $200 back. MP has about 600-700, LP1 has around $400, LP2 has about $700, and I have about $630 after flatting raise.


Flop comes 10h-9c-4c


Action checks to MP opener. He bets around $75. LP1 folds, LP2 raises to about $200.




My read on LP2 - he has been getting beat alot. He is too aggro, raising against opponents who will not fold when he has mediocre hands. He is simply playing poorly. He is always calling with 1 gappers and SCs. But he keeps building huge pots, and he rarely shows down the best hand. He is in the game for 1500-2000 at this point. He is stuck big time.


As for the opener, MP, I suspect he has an overpair. I am about 90% certain he has QQ+. He is a careful player. He is not going to stack off 100+ BBs with one pair.



As for UTG +1, he is a fish, plain and simple. Very little thought goes into his play. However, he only has about $200, and I expect him to shove any draw or any piece of the flop.



As for me.... I have a fairly tight image. I have not played that many hands. I have not been caught bluffing yet.




I am thinking, my overs are probably live. I have a NFD, BDSD.


I suspect LP2 probably has a combo hand, like pair and draw perhaps. No part of me thinks this guy has a set. He is just too active, he raises too much. His range is fairly wide.



I am really thinking about just moving in for $630. I think I have enough equity to do so. I also think I must have some sort of fold equity against all opponents. I have enough chips to move them off their hands, but LP2, probably not.

Hero?
 
IPlay

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I look down at Ac-Kc. I contemplate 3-betting. However, I will be OOP, and I hate playing OOP.

As for me.... I have a fairly tight image. I have not played that many hands. I have not been caught bluffing yet.


Some good reasons to 3bet pre here, as played I think you gotta gamboooollllll here.
 
Beanfacekilla

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I look down at Ac-Kc. I contemplate 3-betting. However, I will be OOP, and I hate playing OOP.

As for me.... I have a fairly tight image. I have not played that many hands. I have not been caught bluffing yet.


Some good reasons to 3bet pre here, as played I think you gotta gamboooollllll here.



This is an excellent point. I thought about this in real time.


However, I just really felt like the opener had QQ+. A very strong instinct. I have learned over the years to trust my instincts.



I just felt 3-bet was a bad idea.
 
Aces2w1n

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At thr point preflop u felt ur opponent strong.

You shouldve 3bet or folded. Lets face it you hit you still could b behind and with 4 ppl at least top pair wont hold.

Fold pre if u cant 3bet
 
Beanfacekilla

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At thr point preflop u felt ur opponent strong.

You shouldve 3bet or folded. Lets face it you hit you still could b behind and with 4 ppl at least top pair wont hold.

Fold pre if u cant 3bet



This is a good point. I was getting a good price to call though. At the time I just thought I would see a flop before making any moves.



But being out of position, multi-way, perhaps a fold is better considering my instincts.




However, as played, what do we do on this flop?
 
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MinhANguyen

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This is a good point. I was getting a good price to call though. At the time I just thought I would see a flop before making any moves.



But being out of position, multi-way, perhaps a fold is better considering my instincts.




However, as played, what do we do on this flop?

Flatting with AK multi-way is never a good idea. You have reverse implied odds, and it's hard to get away from an A or K high flop when you're beat. Being 120bb deep makes it more of a reason to 3-bet. AK gets its value from dominated hands (AQ, AJ) and from its fold equity preflop and postflop; it is not a made hand.

I think if you're questioning on what you should do on this flop, you're probably not properly rolled for the game. Especially since you flatted multi-way, you just have to close your eyes and ship it in. Against any pair, you are a slight favorite, and with all the dead money in the pot, it's going to be profitable. The only things that crush you here are sets. And from what you say, if you jam here, the tight guy with the overpair is going to fold. And if the LAG player was fooling around, he might fold. Or if he was messing around with some type of straight or flush draw, you're a huge favorite.
 
Beanfacekilla

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Flatting with AK multi-way is never a good idea. You have reverse implied odds, and it's hard to get away from an A or K high flop when you're beat. Being 120bb deep makes it more of a reason to 3-bet. AK gets its value from dominated hands (AQ, AJ) and from its fold equity preflop and postflop; it is not a made hand.

I think if you're questioning on what you should do on this flop, you're probably not properly rolled for the game. Especially since you flatted multi-way, you just have to close your eyes and ship it in. Against any pair, you are a slight favorite, and with all the dead money in the pot, it's going to be profitable. The only things that crush you here are sets. And from what you say, if you jam here, the tight guy with the overpair is going to fold. And if the LAG player was fooling around, he might fold. Or if he was messing around with some type of straight or flush draw, you're a huge favorite.




Thanks for the post man. I really appreciate the feedback.


I just decided to ask for input on the flop, because that is where I thought the hand got interesting. Worthy of discussion (I thought).


I did not consider the consequences of flatting and hitting a pair OTF in real time.



I shipped all in pretty quickly. I thought it was pretty standard. I felt A and K were live.


Fish in EP snap called all in for $200 with a red offsuit J-8.

Other tilted dude who raised, he called for nearly his whole stack with 8c-10c.


I turned the nuts.



They were both drawing dead.


It was an easy decision postflop, but I still wanted to post the hand because I felt I did not play it well.



MP (original preflop raiser) showed AA and folded when the shit hit the fan postflop.



I really should have just folded preflop, as you guys said. If I trust my read that I can't 3 bet, I should fold. I am really glad you guys explained the reverse implied odds situation that could ensue by flatting. Thanks for that.
 
WVHillbilly

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Preflop's been beat to death but as played I happily ship the flop.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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Ship or fold are equally fine imo, as you might get some better made hands to fold, or get it in with good equity.

Call is the worst option imo.
 
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There are hands which play well in multiway pots and there are hands which play well in heads up pots.

Multiway pot hands: suited connectors, suited one-gappers, suited Ax hands, low to medium pocket pairs

Heads up pot hands: AJ+, KQ, high pocket pairs

When you have AK, you should always be trying to isolate players by raising, so that you can get a heads up pot. This hand plays excellent heads up and terrible in multiway pots.
 
Beanfacekilla

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Thanks for the input guys. I just now saw the 2 most recent responses.


Considering my read, I think best course of action was to just fold PF. However, we saw the flop, and the hand played itself after that.
 
Delvuter

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Deep stacked OOP, Multi, a 3-Bet pre would kinda be a semi-bluff and we want to 3-Bet bluff less, for the exact reason you mentioned, a 4-Bet would suck. So the flat pre is fine with me, let's see how our AKs does, it's basically a suited connector which is great deep stacked, we are looking to flop straight & flush draws, not pairs. You got what you wanted and you played it correctly, aggressively. Well played pre & post. IMO. Well, actually my opinion is from the deep stacked strategy article.
 
TheGenera1

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I don't play as high as nl500 live but live play is full of fish, so my advice is probably still good here.

Tbh I don't think you played the hand all that badly considering the AK was suited. Ultimately you have a very strong suited connector which plays great 4 way. Heres what I would do considering you had a super strong read that MP1 had a huge hand Pre flop

AKsuited? call against known fish hoping to hit big and value town.

AKoffsuit? Fold preflop.

As stated, flop is an easy ship considering the strongest player will likely fold overpair, leaving you with two drooler fish of who's range you crush.
 
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ph_il

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I had just finished watching this video before I read this hand and it's quite similar to yours.
 
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