$50 NLHEFull Ring: Pkt Q's in SB - UTG 4x the BB raise from 452BB stack & a flat in M

$50 NLHEFull Ring: Pkt Q's in SB - UTG 4x the BB raise from 452BB stack & a flat in M

No stats on villain(s).

My 1st thought when I seen UTG raise 4x the BB when he's sittin' w/ 452 big blinds, was that he was just being a bully & I was going to re-pop it when/if it folded to me. But, some1 from MP flat & I started to think...what next?


full tilt poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: $42.80
MP2: $52.25
CO: $33.60
BTN: $67.50
Hero (SB): $50.25
BB: $48.25
UTG: $226.15
UTG+1: $155.20
UTG+2: $37.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with Q:heart: Q:club:
UTG raises to $2, 2 folds, MP1 calls $2, 3 folds, Hero ???

It doesn't what his stack size is. You have 100bb and MP1 has less. Therefore UTG has 100bbs. Raise.

If raising was the best move here, then I made a mistake. I flat here & seen a flop hoping for no kings or aces & intending to bet out on the flop if board wasn't too scary. My flop bet wasn't the best size but I figured 1/2 pot would suffice.

Flop: ($8.00) T:club: 9:heart: 9:diamond: (4 players)
Hero bets $4, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 calls $4

What could MP1 be flatting here w/?

Turn: ($16.00) A:diamond: (2 players)
Hero ???

Should this ace on the turn slow me down?

$12 pre

C/c turn up to $7 or so, block bet river

MP may not have anything. He may have called with intention of floating waiting for a show of weakness to take down pot. Problem is your call and c-bet have not forced him to define his hand.

I put him on A10 after he flat the flop bet. So...the ace on the turn scuuurrrrred me & I slowed down. I was only going to c/c any bets from him.

Here's how the rest of the hand played out. I don't know why I called the river bet even after putting him on A10 But, it turned out to be a good 1.

Turn: ($16.00) A:diamond: (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks

River: ($16.00) 2:heart: (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $9, Hero calls $9

Final Pot: $34.00
MP1 shows 8:diamond: 7:diamond: (a pair of Nines)
Hero shows Q:heart: Q:club: (two pair, Queens and Nines)
Hero wins $32.30
(Rake: $1.70)

dont put him on a random hand, put him on a range of hands

crazy russians and their logical thinking

I 3bet this prf.

Any one else prefer c/r the flop after we flat over the donk bet?
We have a good relative postion on original raiser and we should probably expect a cbet on this board a lot+ its the kinda a board a lot of people are gonna float if there Mp1 imo.
And random spazzes from small-mid PPs "Who haz to pars" is allways nice.

Thought?

Fold pre obv

S93 said:

I 3bet this prf.

Any one else prefer c/r the flop after we flat over the donk bet?
We have a good relative postion on original raiser and we should probably expect a cbet on this board a lot+ its the kinda a board a lot of people are gonna float if there Mp1 imo.
And random spazzes from small-mid PPs "Who haz to pars" is allways nice.

Thought?

Click to expand...

No I'd lead QQ here. C-R is slightly thinnish, what hands are you getting value from, JJ or Tx maybe?

vanquish said:

dont put him on a random hand, put him on a range of hands

Click to expand...

Yea, this was the 1st hand that I had ever played w/ either of them (UTG & MP1). I would think that a random hand prediction would be the same as a range of hands prediction being no HH of either.

ChuckTs said:

crazy russians and their logical thinking

Click to expand...

HaHa

S93 said:

I 3bet this prf.

Any one else prefer c/r the flop after we flat over the donk bet?
We have a good relative postion on original raiser and we should probably expect a cbet on this board a lot+ its the kinda a board a lot of people are gonna float if there Mp1 imo.
And random spazzes from small-mid PPs "Who haz to pars" is allways nice.

Thought?

Click to expand...

On this kind of board, if I were to check here (being I'm OOP) & get a bet from OR, I'd have no idea where I was @. If I check & let's say OR puts out a bet of $4+, & MP1 floats it, what do I do then? I could raise but what good would that do when they would be priced in to call w/ w/e draw(s) they might have. That's why I lead out. I understand now that the best play would be to 3-bet pre ITS.

Suited Frenzy said:

On this kind of board, if I were to check here (being I'm OOP) & get a bet from OR, I'd have no idea where I was @. If I check & let's say OR puts out a bet of $4+, & MP1 floats it, what do I do then? I could raise but what good would that do when they would be priced in to call w/ w/e draw(s) they might have. That's why I lead out. I understand now that the best play would be to 3-bet pre ITS.

Click to expand...

Not saying donking here is wrong or that c/r is better but im not sure I understand your thought process here.
The draws that are out there arnt very strong and u dont want to c/r because it will price them in? So u don´t want to stack off vs weak draws?

He had the 7d8d & the board read 10c9h9dAd2h. 17 outs I believe. Not sure that is a weak draw but I know what you mean.

I may have played this WAY too passively but I'm a nit sometimes

This is part of the reason why you reraise preflop...for value. build the pot bigger, making your flop lead bigger. that said, if the pot is bigger you may have to face more difficult decisions on later streets, but when you're at the top of your range you want more money in the pot and it's harder to extract value postflop OOP.

baudib1 said:

This is part of the reason why you reraise preflop...for value. build the pot bigger, making your flop lead bigger. that said, if the pot is bigger you may have to face more difficult decisions on later streets, but when you're at the top of your range you want more money in the pot and it's harder to extract value postflop OOP.

Click to expand...

Makes total sense, I obviously never thought about it like that. In understanding what you said, I'm 3-betting next time ITS.

It also helps define ranges.

You said you put your opponent on AT. If you reraise the dynamics of the hand changes dramatically -- although in this case we have no stats, when we have better information (VPIP, fold to 3-bet percentage will tell us what kind of range he is calling preflop and what he's continuing with) and know how his range plays against the board texture and put him on a range of hands instead of randomly guessing.

Yea, I wish I could read their %'s on certain hands but I don't use any HUDs so I have to guess. It's tricky sometimes.

3-bet pre to at least $10. Playing QQ OOP sucks. I don't mind a flat on the button but here definitely raise.

Suited Frenzy said:

Yea, I wish I could read their %'s on certain hands but I don't use any HUDs so I have to guess. It's tricky sometimes.

Click to expand...

Get one, seriously you're playing 50nl, get one right now. This minute. I'm not joking do it immediately.

To people who 3bet this preflop:

• do you play full ring?
• Do you play 50 or 100nl?
• do you fold to a 4bet or get it in?
• do you think you fare well against the range an unknown FR player plays for stacks from UTG?

FWIW, the biggest winners at 100nl FR at the moment (QQ-quads-QQ and Paketa7) typically 3bet around 3% overall. I'm pretty sure they both flat with QQ here and so would I. I would 3bet it at 6max, I would 3bet it at 10nl FR, I would 3bet it at 400nl FR, but I really don't think that's the right play at 50nl FR.

Belgo I think it's fair to say the big stack is opening a wider range UTG and continuing to a 3-bet more than most typical FR nits here.

baudib1 said:

Belgo I think it's fair to say the big stack is opening a wider range UTG and continuing to a 3-bet more than most typical FR nits here.

Click to expand...

why? do we know all the regs and therefore villains being unknowns they must be droolers? Because otherwise, a typical FR player is synonymous with a typical FR nit.

how does a nit accumulate 452 bbs off other nits?

either way, if he's LAG he's calling ATs for a three-bet and if he's a nit his range here is uber-strong and will probably continue with most of it.