$50 NLHE Heads-up: so i wanna call a triple barrel with a pair of 3's...

JCgrind

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deep stacked game.

ive been at the table for a while waiting on someone to join, and this avg reg who i have enough history with comes, and ive pushed him around pretty badly in the 40 or so hands we play, then this hand happens

i think stats are pretty irrelevant here, so im not going to include them. what i will say is that i know for sure that this guy is capable of x3 barrel bluffing, and that his 3b range in regular games is around 8% (obv not sure about HU though)

my thoughts are as follows;

poker stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em $0.10 Ante - 2 players - View hand 1971709
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN/SB): $142.52
BB: $144.04

Pre Flop: ($0.95) Hero is BTN/SB with 4
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3
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Hero raises to $1.70, BB raises to $5.50, Hero calls $3.80

so he 3bs big, obv has a strong hand. im honestly pretty sceptical that he does this with a monster, and even if im wrong i have sick implied odds so i call.

Flop: ($11.20) 2
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6
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9
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(2 players)
BB bets $6.75, Hero calls $6.75

perfectly invisible gutterball, calling all day. not sure if he realises, but that flop hits my 3b calling range pretty fkn hard. i think he would bet bigger to protect assuming he knows this, although he could just be betting small to keep in in weak when he has a mega huge hand.

Turn: ($24.70) 3
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(2 players)
BB bets $15, Hero calls $15

i expect him to fire overs, as well as overpairs here obv, but now i have a bunch more hidden outs and stacks are still super deep... call

River: ($54.70) 9
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(2 players)
BB bets $32.75, Hero????

im really sure this is a call, but its just so sick. 9ball repeats OTR and vil still betting? when its top pair and ive called 2 streets and its totally in my range and 100% not in his unless he has quads somehow. is he really good enough to value bet an overpair here thinking ill hero worse? dont think hes seen me do it, so i doubt it. (the incredibly obvious way to exploit me here with a hand is to check, then call any amount as i undoubtedly stick in some ridic bet with all my airballs. i know it, and im sure he knows it)
so ye, imo, it just makes absolutely no sense to bet here for vaule in the first place. then look at the sizing. if he has an overpair and wants me to call light, why so much?


this screams bluff to me. thoughts?
 
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acky100

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you must level yourself atleast 16 times a session amiright?
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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i would not called the 43s with the 3bet cause depend on his 3bet range you would of been behind anyway cause he could of be doing with AK-AT, KQ-KJ and any pair. the fact that you flop bottom 2 pair with a draw good but with the 3bet i would of folded and waited for a better spot.
 
mrmonkey

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It seems to me like a pretty typical value line and 8% 3bet regularly means likely a higher 3bet in HU. Unless his 3bet is merged there are probably some 9x in his range, and overpairs and boats/quads he plays with this standard line thinking you call with worse overpairs, dominated trips, or maybe even some sort of hero call with middle pair. He's probably afraid to lose value here... despite knowing that you are pretty aggressive how certain can he really be that you won't check back the river?

Is he capable of doing this with AK, 78, or whiffed heart draws? Probably, but I think much less likely than a value line from more combos that have you beat.
 
The Messiah

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you must level yourself atleast 16 times a session amiright?

Iol'd so hard! It's funny cause its true.


i would not called the 43s with the 3bet cause depend on his 3bet range you would of been behind anyway cause he could of be doing with AK-AT, KQ-KJ and any pair. the fact that you flop bottom 2 pair with a draw good but with the 3bet i would of folded and waited for a better spot.

He flopped a gutter ball, no 2 pair. Even if he did were in the exact same situation were in with his actual hand, were only bluff catching as we would now be losing to all pp that would be thin value betting this river as the board has paired.

As played, call. The best card in the deck has hit the river.
 
WVHillbilly

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I love how these hero call threads always go from calling a huge 3bet preflop for "sick implied odds" to calling with 3rd pair on the river because villain can never have anything! Pretty hard to have it both ways.

Fold pre.
 
Ducky7

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Super sick river, made me throw up abit URGHHHHHHHHHHH kind of makes me want to call too coz his line makes no sense now, he should be x/c'ing overpairs now OTR right, unless he is some crazy cat that can vbet OP's here? he could have 9x which is a real posibility otherwise ye this line makes no sense, URGHHH still want to fold but URGGGGGGH JCHOOP why did you make me see this hand haha, gayest spot ever. Could go either way really, however he could know you are calling super wide and therefore just betting everything so im leaning to a call tbh, sick spot Jchoop, thought it was only me who got these spots
 
duggs

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explain to me why he cant have AA/KK here and be vbetting v your 88/77/1010/A6hh/A3hh or b/c river since you are agg and will be raising this river as a bluff some % as a bluff.
 
The Messiah

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explain to me why he cant have AA/KK here and be vbetting v your 88/77/1010/A6hh/A3hh or b/c river since you are agg and will be raising this river as a bluff some % as a bluff.

He can, but its just very thin value betting and villain prob isn't good enough to do so now that the 9 has paired,
It hits jc's range a lot more than villains, you have to think, what is jc calling down with here(villain obv can't put him on his hand)
Also all draws don't get there so for him to be betting here, is very weird, what calls that he beats(i know its jc, ATC right)c/c is obv the best line against an agg player esp heads up,
Also if he was going for the b/c line then why bet so big, he would bet smaller to induce.
This is a call, I don't think it's even that close tbh.
The only sickening thing is that if villain turns his low pp into a bluff on the river that we lose to but still, saying all that, its hero call time!!!

Also just want to say, best HH I've seen in a very long time. So much to discuss.
 
duggs

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sizing is a good point messiah, although i would def be betting AA for value v JC on river
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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LOL

where do I start?

always happens in a choop HA, i'll come back tomorrow when I've thought it through some more.. urgh, nice spot.
 
duggs

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messiah makes a good point that we lose to some of his bluffing range.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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river raise seems kinda sexy to me?
 
duggs

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i his range is polarized to hands that wont fold and airballs we beat but may 3bet bluff us on river isnt call>raise?
 
The Messiah

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river raise seems kinda sexy to me?

This is a spot were its really the 'nuts' or air, raising is spew IMO.
Raising really only folds hands lk low pp that we lose to, but its too small of a range % to make this play too marginal.
This is just a clear call/fold spot.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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I think he has more overpairs than 9x tbh, if he's got history with choop then he must know at least enough to know that he's a station pre lol.

with that in mind and the bigger than normal raise, I give him a stronger range.. stronger hands don't include 9x too often.

he can have bluffs here obv, but still he's not comfy calling a raise with weak overpairs since we have more 9x/boats etc than he does..

its air or thin value hands here imo.


...


and doubt avg regs 3bet bluff rivers in big pots either.
 
Ducky7

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Re thinking this based on a few things OMG said ie, he knows Choop, i think shoving OTR is just lovely, means he folds everything but 9x and puts him in the worst spot with AA which he will fold some of the time anyway (or should be doing)
 
The Messiah

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I think he has more overpairs than 9x tbh, if he's got history with choop then he must know at least enough to know that he's a station pre lol.

with that in mind and the bigger than normal raise, I give him a stronger range.. stronger hands don't include 9x too often.

he can have bluffs here obv, but still he's not comfy calling a raise with weak overpairs since we have more 9x/boats etc than he does..

its air or thin value hands here imo.


...


and doubt avg regs 3bet bluff rivers in big pots either.

Exactly so if he's a station pre this is not a good time to be betting on the river with an overpair.

If he's got an over pair in his range then b/c, b/f are both bad.
We got an agg player that when checked to will bet a high % of his bluffs on this river as his perceived range hits it fairly hard so c/c is defo +ev than then betting with an overpair.

Lets say he bets with the intention of calling a 3 bet on the river with an overpair, why bet so much?, by doing so he's creating an ideal situation for jc, he's creating a low spr and will have to call off for his entire stack as there is ~87 in the pot and jc has ~115 behind so in order to create fold equity he would need to jam.hes most likely to bet smaller, first of all because it can be perceived as weak/thin value then if jc did go ahead and 3 bet villain, he wouldn't be playing for his entire stack with his marginal hand.thats why b/f such an amount other than our bluffs in this spot is just terribly bad, and can't see villain doing it if he's a decent reg.

Also, there isn't room for villain to 4 bet jam river with such a bet on river as there isn't enough fold equity given by villain for jc not to call meaning its only the 'nuts'/bluff, never thin value IMO with such a bet.


Again, jamming is bad ducky as the only hands that were folding that we lose to are small pp, and since its such a small range % it doesn't make the play viable, more ev than call/folding.
If villains b/c with AA then he's doing the exact same with 1010+(or at least he should be as its the same thing)

Were the f is jc.:p
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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Iol'd so hard! It's funny cause its true.




He flopped a gutter ball, no 2 pair. Even if he did were in the exact same situation were in with his actual hand, were only bluff catching as we would now be losing to all pp that would be thin value betting this river as the board has paired.

As played, call. The best card in the deck has hit the river.

please re-read it, he did hit bottom 2 pair...if you cant find it let me know...would love u have you at my table:eating:
 
The Messiah

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All right, show me were he hits 2 pair on that flop smart ass.

Your wish will be my command, what stakes cha play..
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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All right, show me were he hits 2 pair on that flop smart ass.

Your wish will be my command, what stakes cha play..

board 2h 6d 9h 3c 9d.....he holding 43s...he hit the turn....river pairs the board giving bottom 2 pair...true he did not flop it, but ment to put showdown and not flop on my first post
 
The Messiah

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board 2h 6d 9h 3c 9d.....he holding 43s...he hit the turn....river pairs the board giving bottom 2 pair...true he did not flop it, but ment to put showdown and not flop on my first post

I find that hard to believe considering you said he had a draw along with 2 pair, and I don't think you can be drawing in a hand when it comes to the river!!

So I take it you don't want to play against me anymore:p
 
The Messiah

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wouldnt be very fair to you if i did

Lol, stop trolling or else take me up on an offer and play me, if not stop trying to be the 'big man'(false since of confidence), just because you look foolish for making a noob error.
 
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