$50 NLHE Heads-up: Floating flop and turn OOP then donk bluff river with Ace high

Playing live with a guy who I play a lot with I know his style and we discuss a lot of strategy together, this guy is pretty LAG, showed a few bluffs earlier on too.

Preflop: (Hero has Ad,Kc in the BB)
Villian raise to $1.50
Hero 3-bets to $4.00
Villian calls

Flop $8:
4h, 10h, Qc
Hero checks
Villian bets $6
Hero calls

Turn $20 :
4h, 10h, Qc, 2d
Hero checks
Villian bets $13
Hero calls

River $46:
4h, 10h, Qc, 2d, 9h
Hero bets $30
Villian folds

Is this a good spot for a bluff? is my play justified? Thanks CC would like some feedback ty, also sorry if its hard to read. Ps villian never showed hand or told me afterwards. cheers.

My usual disclaimer: I'm not an expert. THAT BEING SAID
It looks like a good spot; your read on how he plays is useful, especially after talking strategy with you. The shots he's taking at the pot look like just that, attempts to take it down. Methinks he'd bet differently if he had the hearts. That worked in your favor, because that'd follow your line pretty closely.
Personally I'd love to hear that I have it all wrong, trying to learn, but from my perspective, good on you.

runnerx289 said:

Playing live with a guy who I play a lot with I know his style and we discuss a lot of strategy together, this guy is pretty LAG, showed a few bluffs earlier on too.

Preflop: (Hero has Ad,Kc in the BB)
Villian raise to $1.50
Hero 3-bets to $4.00
Villian calls

Flop $8:
4h, 10h, Qc
Hero checks
Villian bets $6
Hero calls

Turn $20 :
4h, 10h, Qc, 2d
Hero checks
Villian bets $13
Hero calls

River $46:
4h, 10h, Qc, 2d, 9h
Hero bets $30
Villian folds

Is this a good spot for a bluff? is my play justified? Thanks CC would like some feedback ty, also sorry if its hard to read. Ps villian never showed hand or told me afterwards. cheers.

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Well , ussualy i am not into big bluffs and specially big bluffs OOP. But if you spot a good pattern in his bets you have to take advantage. You are the one who knows the villan better than anyone else. Ussualy it is not the spot but the opponent profile. You can have a good spot vs a calling station and you can bluff all you want because he will look you up. You must be certain that your opponent is a resonable player that is folding to a big bet when he has a marginal hand.

runnerx289 said:

Playing live with a guy who I play a lot with I know his style and we discuss a lot of strategy together, this guy is pretty LAG, showed a few bluffs earlier on too.

Preflop: (Hero has Ad,Kc in the BB)
Villian raise to $1.50
Hero 3-bets to $4.00
Villian calls

Flop $8:
4h, 10h, Qc
Hero checks
Villian bets $6
Hero calls

Turn $20 :
4h, 10h, Qc, 2d
Hero checks
Villian bets $13
Hero calls

River $46:
4h, 10h, Qc, 2d, 9h
Hero bets $30
Villian folds

Is this a good spot for a bluff? is my play justified? Thanks CC would like some feedback ty, also sorry if its hard to read. Ps villian never showed hand or told me afterwards. cheers.

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nice float, good bluff line, well done

If V blasts the pot on turn though for greater than $20, you gotta fold though. That would be indicative he had a strong value hand and players with strong value hands won't fold to a river bluff here even though they "know" they are beat. They get too emotionally vested in the hand and make a crying call.

But as played, everything looks good. Well done.

Would you ever check a heart draw on the flop? probably not.

I don't like this, if you have a read he's weak then just bet the flop/turn or w/e. It's hard to really give you a hand here, if he folded a Q then well played but I have a hard time folding any pair on the river personally.

You don't rep anything. Can't see any decent player folding any piece here.

You only fold him off of a bluff he has that is trying to make your JJ/99 fold, neither off these bluffs are likely to continue barreling OTR based on your line.

ScottishMatt said:

You don't rep anything. Can't see any decent player folding any piece here..

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what are you talking about???

This reps the flush draw perfectly. I can easily see a Flush draw OOP checking down majority of the time as long as the betting isn't crazy.

Can a FD be more aggressive here? Sure. but that doesn't negate that a lot of players (especially beginning players) are check/calling down their flush draws and then leading out on river when it hits.

Or put another way. If we have KQ here and call the river, are we going to be "surprised" when villain turns over a flush?

Really?

If that is the case, you have some serious leaks in your game and are probably a calling station

dgiharris said:

what are you talking about???

This reps the flush draw perfectly. I can easily see a Flush draw OOP checking down majority of the time as long as the betting isn't crazy.

Can a FD be more aggressive here? Sure. but that doesn't negate that a lot of players (especially beginning players) are check/calling down their flush draws and then leading out on river when it hits.

Or put another way. If we have KQ here and call the river, are we going to be "surprised" when villain turns over a flush?

Really?

If that is the case, you have some serious leaks in your game and are probably a calling station

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Villain has history with OP and should know that he probably plays draws aggressively. No regular is ever checking a flush draw OOP with initiative here imo. Villain should know that OP isn't bad or a beginner either and likely plays draws aggressively.

lol at calling matt a calling station.

OP really doesn't represent anything on the river to a thinking player, maybe only a slow-played Qxh.

baudib1 said:

, if he folded a Q then well played .

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Isn't this results orientated bad thinking? Unless OP knew that villain wasn't going to know that OP plays draws aggressively in this situation then it's a bad bet imo regardless if he got Q/X to fold and he just got lucky instead with a lower level of thinking...

I feel like in these kind of spots in live games there is a ton of meta involved and if your read is this guy is going to fold all of his range when an obvious draw comes in then it's fine.

Personally, I wouldn't expect a competent villain to play something like AKhh here this passively so I just expect him to be turning his weakish range into a bluff with this line (whereas your standard low stakes live player will just always have it),.

I am just recently developing some station-y tendencies, however my nitiness remains intact. Ask anyone, I am one of the tighter players on this forum and I struggle to fold absolutely any piece that I'm willing to double with here.

If Hero is perceived as a calling station then we can rep 99, and that is far too narrow a range to fold out a T or better.

dgiharris said:

nice float, good bluff line, well done

If V blasts the pot on turn though for greater than $20, you gotta fold though. That would be indicative he had a strong value hand and players with strong value hands won't fold to a river bluff here even though they "know" they are beat. They get too emotionally vested in the hand and make a crying call.

But as played, everything looks good. Well done.

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Yeah if he bet closer to pot im almost snap folding but I wasn't getting a bad price to call and my two overs may be live, also thought I had a few good bluff outs

Normally im not keen on running big bluffs like this but this just looked like a great spot and I could see myself checking the flop with the FD, Q/T looks kind of his range to call preflop with

I don't like your line at all. There should be almost zero value hands in your range that you play this way. Depending on how wide your 3betting your flushes are probably limited to exactly 1 combo (AhKh) and with that hand you're probably betting the flop and turn. My guess is that your AK high hand was best.

runnerx289 said:

Normally im not keen on running big bluffs like this but this just looked like a great spot and I could see myself checking the flop with the FD, Q/T looks kind of his range to call preflop with

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I did have a long drawn out post here. Instead I'll keep it short.

Please don't X/C here with a flush draw.

Your bluff, if it was a bluff (which I doubt), only worked because the LAG views you as a fish. No capable player here is X/C'ing flop and turn with a hand that is good enough to donk valuebet this river.

What were you trying to fold out? I first looked at the line and thought you were going to c/c the river.

John A said:

What were you trying to fold out? I first looked at the line and thought you were going to c/c the river.

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OP is trying to fold out all pairs to include weak sauce Qx

AK is not the best hand here, villain should have a ton of underpairs in his range that put hero on AK

I don't think V had a strong Qx hand, I think strong Qx hands make a crying call on river. Even though Qx and underpairs are virtually the same strength on river, a lot of villains don't think that way.

dgiharris said:

OP is trying to fold out all pairs to include weak sauce Qx

AK is not the best hand here, villain should have a ton of underpairs in his range that put hero on AK

I don't think V had a strong Qx hand, I think strong Qx hands make a crying call on river. Even though Qx and underpairs are virtually the same strength on river, a lot of villains don't think that way.

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mmmm, I don't think so. And against his range AK is the best hand. If you think someone is folding out Qx after hero played the hand like that, well...

No... U represent nothing. Sorry to inform u. If u want to represent a set or something... U can float the flop, x/r the turn. And then lead out the river. I think your bluff will be a lot more successful if u play it like that. If villain is competent he is calling with most of his range... Probably anything that caught a piece of the board.every queen Is calling you. If you wanna tell a real story... U can x/r flop, x/r turn, then shove river depending on stack sizes. That will scare the living **** out of him and he will be folding everything but the top of his range. This play is not for any random spot, u really need a strong read and know the guy well enough to know he has nothing.

Are there better ways to rep a flush draw.

Absolutely.

But don't confuse that argument with OP's line that he is repping a flush draw.

A lot of weak-tight rec players would play a FD exactly like OP has.

To say he reps nothing is just a flat out incorrect statement. Its just that YOU wouldn't rep a FD like that, but don't transfer that onto OP. Fact is, his line does rep a FD, maybe just not the way you would do it...

His line reps a flush draw if he is a fish. No capable player is repping the flush here.

If Hero is a fish then he has bigger things to worry about than how he played this hand.

Hand was 3bet pre and then you check/called and lead river. 1. You aren't repping any real hand. 2. However, this actually IS a good spot to bluff if you know villain will dub with his air and flush draws and give up when they miss, but ONLYYY if villain isn't a very smart player. If he is a smart player then he would probably just ship river on you and then you have to fold. Generally its best to bluff in poker when you think opponent missed based on his action AND you can represent a lot of hands. This reps nothing but against a bad aggro player it might work because he might give up when you lead the river. Some bad aggro players at the micros will always bet when checked to, and will sometimes give up when facing aggression. So my point is this play would only work if villain had a massively wide range to call the 3bet with, would spew out when checked to, and then fold when you lead. I don't think villain ever folds a Q or a T here, I know I wouldn't.

The topic didn't start too promising imo but ended up pretty interesting after all.

A capable player is capable (does anyone see what I did there) of taking a line like this both as a bluff and with a value hand. Against one of the 3 or so ppl in this topic who don't think a couple of hearts would/should be played like this, this would be a pretty good line to take. That being said I have to admit your play looked a little goofy to me at first glance also. I'm just trying to make a point about allowing your opponent to hand read quite well.

What we ought to be doing is asking OP a few questions about why he was of the opinion during this hand that his actions maximize expected value. Make sure his plan is consistent, his thinking is sound, and that his line truly is ideal against this particular player and the way said player was thinking/playing at the time. Hero seems to know his opponent quite well, but doesn't share anything about villain with us for whatever reason. HU hands are obv very player dependent so for that reason and the lack of effective stacks I didn't reply originally.

Is this your typical 3bet sizing against 3× opens? What was the rationale for not betting the flop? Does the flop crush his flatting range versus your 3bet if he's perhaps heavy on broadway type hands? What range are you 3 betting pre and does villain have any sense of what it is? I mean I can't even relate the general tendencies of 50NL HU games online to a guy playing some live hands with his buddy. The river donk can potentially fold out a lot of villain's range here. You'd know best how reluctant he'd be to fold anything here you're not already beating, not to mention the likelihood of the 9h improving his hand given his actions to this point.

frozensprx said:

this actually IS a good spot to bluff if you know villain will dub with his air and flush draws and give up when they miss

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If this is the case then you'd likely win the pot without having to risk another penny otr.

This is awful

Just lead flop, this is not the type of board where you want to be check/calling 3 streets with ace high since it hits his range and a lot of turn/rivers, complete combos he will have. Check/raising flop is pretty nice aswell though but leading definitely best

Turn, just fold after he bets, he knows what you have so just fold

River is awful. You rep 99, and thats it, so he should be snapping your bet with any queen. Not to mention that river hits all of his draws that he may have been betting with making it even less likely for him to fold. You *might* get j9 to fold, but thats about it, since your hand looks exactly like ak or a random 66-88 type pp that is trying to bluff the riv