$50 NLHE Full Ring: RUSH: Pair+NFD vs Solid reg OOP

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TimmyOtool

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$50 NL HE Full Ring: RUSH: Pair+NFD vs Solid reg OOP

Hey guys,

Been playing around the new RUSH poker a bit, still run into some regs at the .25/.50 FR games. This particular opponent, I've ran into a couple times, usually had the goods and has gotten me into big pots before.

I'd say his pretty ABC thinking player, he is mutli tabling so it might take some attention from his game. When I was playing him at the 9-man tables his stats were something along the lines of 12/10/3.

I'm having some difficulty with these situations, hands like AJs/KQs OOP where I'd get a piece + draw or just the draw, usually I'd C-bet this board, but it is pretty dangerous and I do not want to get raised off my hand. OR was that a bad idea? Checking might induce a bet from say QJ/JT/pairs/draws and of course i'm behind AK/99/JJ/KK+/QT.


Thoughts on how to proceed further in the hand?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG+1 ($46.25)
Hero (MP1) ($66.90)
MP2 ($60.90)
MP3 ($27.30)
CO ($56.25)
Button ($28.40)
SB ($59.30)
BB ($10)
UTG ($58.75)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J
club.gif
, A
club.gif

2 folds, Hero bets $1.75, MP2 calls $1.75, 1 fold, CO calls $1.75, 3 folds
Flop: ($6) J
spade.gif
, 9
club.gif
, K
club.gif
(3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets $4.50, Hero calls $4.50, 1 fold
Turn: ($15) 9
spade.gif
(2 players)
Hero ?
 
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Marginal

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You could probably cbet and get it in on the flop tbh, you have a great hand and a nut draw.

You have to check on the turn, you cant donk bet here, what part of your range other than a bluff is donking the turn.
 
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Zybomb

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The flop is played entirely too passive.

This is a great flop to bet we have good equity against most hands and fold equity,plus we were the aggressor.

Checking is fine also (we don't mind peeling one for free if it happens to be checked around) but if we do check, we should check with the intention of check raising to foldout KT/KQ hands.

With our passive line, we have to check the turn which in turn could lead to a check behind from our villain who would certainly call down blank rivers if we fire with Kx, which means we need to hit to win and aren't giving ourselves 2 ways of winning (showing down the best hand or making our opponent fold his hand)

If instead we had TOP pair and the nut flush draw, i'd prefer c/cing or betting, because we want to keep around inferior top pairs which are crushed, instead of trying to fold them out with aggression in case we don't improve.

As played we have to check the turn as leading out after c/cing makes no sense. All draws whiffed, a new flush draw came up and the bottom pair paired up. Since we're next to never c/cing with J9 K9 or KK JJ 99 and the times we are, we certainly aren't going to lead out full houses, our range is mostly consisting of draws and pair/draws - hence our fold equity against Kx is very small
 
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TimmyOtool

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Thanks for the reponses,

Ok the problem with this spot is that i'm OOP, I can lead the flop which I would usually cept theres two regs behind me. I guess I wasn't sure what my plan was on the turn if I did lead and get called on the flop. I wasn't comfortable enough to fire 2 barrels into them if i'd miss or a 3rd for that matter.

I think a C/R on the flop would fold out some Kx/random hands, but theres also a chance I'd be force to lay down if i'm shoved on since my read on the other 2 players were solid, they would definately not be getting the money in with me being a slight dog, it'll definately be T-2pair or sets?

I guess only reason why I didn't C/R was because i'd get shoved on a lot of times because my hand looks like a draw a lot since I'd rarely check this w/ AA/AK/KK/JJ since its such a drawy board. And again if I'd check raise, and get flatted on the flop, I'd guess i'll just shove the turn?



Anyway, to add to the original post,

Villan bets $9.50


Call and hope to hit? then donk-lead or ... ?
 
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bubonicplay

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The flop is played entirely too passive.

This is a great flop to bet we have good equity against most hands and fold equity,plus we were the aggressor.
Agree

Checking is fine also (we don't mind peeling one for free if it happens to be checked around) but if we do check, we should check with the intention of check raising to foldout KT/KQ hands.
Strongly strongly disagree. If villain is any good at all he is not betting KT/KQ.

With our passive line, we have to check the turn which in turn could lead to a check behind from our villain who would certainly call down blank rivers if we fire with Kx, which means we need to hit to win and aren't giving ourselves 2 ways of winning (showing down the best hand or making our opponent fold his hand)

If instead we had TOP pair and the nut flush draw, i'd prefer c/cing or betting, because we want to keep around inferior top pairs which are crushed, instead of trying to fold them out with aggression in case we don't improve.

As played we have to check the turn as leading out after c/cing makes no sense. All draws whiffed, a new flush draw came up and the bottom pair paired up. Since we're next to never c/cing with J9 K9 or KK JJ 99 and the times we are, we certainly aren't going to lead out full houses, our range is mostly consisting of draws and pair/draws - hence our fold equity against Kx is very small

Agree with all this.

Thanks for the reponses,

Ok the problem with this spot is that i'm OOP, I can lead the flop which I would usually cept theres two regs behind me. I guess I wasn't sure what my plan was on the turn if I did lead and get called on the flop. I wasn't comfortable enough to fire 2 barrels into them if i'd miss or a 3rd for that matter.
Look at possible hands they can have and how good our equity is. We should have no problem stacking this flop.


I think a C/R on the flop would fold out some Kx/random hands, but theres also a chance I'd be force to lay down if i'm shoved on since my read on the other 2 players were solid, they would definately not be getting the money in with me being a slight dog, it'll definately be T-2pair or sets?
Solid or nitty? If they're solid they can hand-read and realize you ch/raising that board makes no sense at all and would be jamming worse draws. Do you ever check a set on this flop? Against a reasonable stacking range a bet and definitely a ch/r prices you in to call a shove.


I guess only reason why I didn't C/R was because i'd get shoved on a lot of times because my hand looks like a draw a lot since I'd rarely check this w/ AA/AK/KK/JJ since its such a drawy board. And again if I'd check raise, and get flatted on the flop, I'd guess i'll just shove the turn?
Bingo, hence the reason you need to just bet flop.


Anyway, to add to the original post,

Villan bets $9.50


Call and hope to hit? then donk-lead or ... ?

Kinda close, paired board kinda sucks if it were unpaired I'd call this all day. Paired board though we're just going to be drawing dead sometimes and if we make the best hand we're just not going to get much value at all. On the other hand we are getting 3:1 which is about the right price if our flush outs are clean even if we don't get much of anything on the river when we hit.
 
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Zybomb

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Strongly strongly disagree. If villain is any good at all he is not betting KT/KQ.

I think the majority of villains when checked to on a drawy board by the PFR will bet Kx a boatload of the time

With a check on a board like this by the PFR it usually means he has some showdownable hand that he doesn't want to be raised off of (i.e QQ, QJ) so he checks intending to c/c. Or an airball (yea this board hits a PFRs range pretty hard) that he just gave up on against two players, as well as occassionally a huge hand (if PFR is the type to c/r a lot and not c bet a high % so his checks don't bring up that much suspicion.)

Given this description why would villain not bet top pair when checked to, when the probably of being c/r'ed isn't too great on boards like these (since villain will lead out most strong holdings) and villains range seems to have a lot of 2nd pairs/gutshots to extract value from (and to a lesser extent protect from)
 
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bubonicplay

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Well when someone checks that flop they are check/folding a ton and they almost never have a draw. Checking back lets them bluff and lets them call us down lighter on later streets. I mean yeah it sucks when villain has A2d and backs into top pair when they were going to ch/f but the value we gain from them bluffing or calling us down lighter is going to be more than the value we gain in protecting from hands with 3-4 outs against us.
 
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