$50 NLHE Full Ring: Pocket kings IP w/ a flop pot bettor

No stats on villain. Was only on the table 30 or so hands. Villain seemed like he was playing TAG. What could he be betting pot w/ here & how much should I raise?

NLHE - $0.25/$0.50 (9 handed)

CO ($50)
Button ($24.02)
SB ($33.29)
BB ($33.32)
UTG ($31.79)
UTG+1 ($50)
MP1 ($41.89)
MP2 ($31.60)
Hero (MP3) ($67.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K♣, K♥
1 fold, UTG+1 checks, MP1 calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 5 folds, MP1 calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.75) 8♠, 7♠, 4♠ (2 players)
MP1 bets $5.75, Hero ?

I'd fold and not worry too much about it.

Weird shitty spot, looks like he's trying to shove on you when you choose to re-pop. Guessing he shows up with AsX here about 80% of the time, but a good amount he's going to have a set or big draws. Probably gotta sigh and fold.

Fold. I made a huge mistake in a very similar situation recently. A guy donk overbet the pot on a 7 4 3 rainbow board. I shoved (we were only 100 BB deep with a large pot) with JJ and he had AA. This is a suited board. He clearly made a big hand and wants no part of the turn card.

Other than having the obvious hands that beat me here (& there are plenty), it's pretty much a coin flip if he has the x...& I know we don't want coin flips in these spots ugh.

The thing is that I know he doesn't have me beat here (the really fast pot bet pretty much told me that). Unless he was a fish, he wouldn't be betting like this.

Why would he want to push me out of the pot if he was ahead? The odds of winning the hand were def in his favor on pretty much any turn card being I have only 1 out (& that might not even be any good if he has a flush already).

My hand really can't get any better & his hand only improves every street so folding is ok here.

I think you are beat here, I don't see why you rule it out.

Sigh fold unfortunately. With no information to go on, it's just not worth it. I think you're ahead a fair bit here as well. But he either is a flip against you if you're ahead, or he has you crushed. Doubt he's airballing ever.

I know he's drawing (by the way he bet). Yea, he could have flopped a set & bet pot to push me away from drawing for a flush. Let's remember, he OL here. I put him on a big flush draw ks4: x &/or the x) & he still has to hit in order to win the pot.

The %'s are a coin flip @ best (unless he has complete trash, no draw, no or so on & so forth) so yea I agree, I'm mostly likely beat here % wise.

Let's remember, he OL here. I put him on a big flush draw ( x &/or the x) & he still has to hit in order to win the pot.

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How does an OL give him a range of largely unsuited big cards? You label him as mostly TAG; do you think TAGs are limping AX/KQo type hands?

I don't think you are thinking about ranges correctly. Limp-call ranges are heavy in smaller cards, with a huge weight toward small pairs and suited cards.

There are very, very, very few single-spade hands in his range. He has sets, 87, 65 and small flushes here almost always. Flipping for stacks is perfectly fine; you are dead here.

Easy fold in this case. Would've been more difficult to fold if one of your Kings was a spade. Fold, move on and pick a better more favourable spot.

Ez fold

baudib1 said:

How does an OL give him a range of largely unsuited big cards? You label him as mostly TAG; do you think TAGs are limping AX/KQo type hands?

I don't think you are thinking about ranges correctly. Limp-call ranges are heavy in smaller cards, with a huge weight toward small pairs and suited cards.

There are very, very, very few single-spade hands in his range. He has sets, 87, 65 and small flushes here almost always. Flipping for stacks is perfectly fine; you are dead here.

Click to expand...

+1 this x1000000

baudib1 said:

How does an OL give him a range of largely unsuited big cards? You label him as mostly TAG; do you think TAGs are limping AX/KQo type hands?

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The OL doesn't necessarily make his range fall towards "unsuited big cards" but it's the flop & the pot size bet that narrowed his range in huge ways (to merely a few hands).

& it's not just that he/she is a TAG. I mean there are good players who play a TAG style of play and there are bad players who play (what they think is) a TAG style. It's like nits for example. A weak player can def be a nit but a nit is not necessarily a weak player. Them OLing in the 1st place is showing me a reason to believe that they are bad. Why would a good player do that @ a table that they have no stats for any player on? :dontknow:

So, basically my point is that all the signs lead me to believe they were on a draw.

If I don't make any sense here, let me know.

Doesn't make any sense. Reread what I said before.

I'm not going to do this for you: Construct a range for someone who is attempting to play TAG but then limp-calls OOP. Which of those hands is he bluffing with on this board?

That board hit a TAG's limp range preeeeetty hard...

baudib1 said:

Construct a range for someone who is attempting to play TAG but then limp-calls OOP.

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To me that range = all mediocre/weak hands.

The reason I say this is because 1. Limping is bad 2. Calling is bad. 3. Limp calling a preflop 4xbb raise is bad 4. Limp calling a preflop 4xbb raise OOP is really bad.

All those things he/she did scream fish to me.

Maybe it's just me but I see their range being very minute there & those few hands aren't strong ones. Acerag type shit & K10, KJ, KQ (1 of those being a spade).

baudib1 said:

Which of those hands is he bluffing with on this board?

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He's bluffing w/ all of them after seeing how he's played out this hand so far.

Acerag type shit & K10, KJ, KQ

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these aren't the type of hands "TAG" types limp. Even if they did, you have 2 kings so the combos of KX are very small.

Yea, maybe I just sat @ the table @ the wrong time to see that player only play 3 out of 30 or so hands. Obv that isn't near enough hands to really label them any type but those 30 or so hands are all I had to gain some knowledge of off. Who knows, maybe they weren't anywhere near TAG & just a complete fish. I should've watched the table for awhile before I sat to really see.

Next time, I won't label them @ all (I won't have any stats anyways coming from Bovada) & I'll just base my information off of what moves they're making. This should avoid some confusion when posting a hand for discussion.

Him limping with 44 fits the play perfectly, he doesn't want you to see a turn card fearing you have a high spade draw. If you have no spade here I think its correct to fold.
my 2pennth