$50 NLHE Full Ring: Maniac check raises flop

$50 NL HE Full Ring: Maniac check raises flop

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 91/13/1.3

I joined the table just to play with this guy, who at the time I sat down was playing 100% of hands. He was limping every pot and calling all preflop raises, or raising himself. His stats after 56 hands were 91 VPIP/13 PFR/20 3bet/1.3 AF. Despite the postflop aggression factor being relatively low, when he bet or raised he'd make it big.

So, here we go:

$0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

BB: $48.25
UTG+1: $19.50
UTG+2: $24.52
MP1: $134.85
Hero (MP2): $49.25
MP3: $40
CO: $100.25
BTN: $60.57
SB: $15.10

Pre-Flop: Hero is MP2 with A Q
UTG+1 calls $0.50, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.50, 6 folds, MP1 calls $2

Flop: ($6.25) K 8 A (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $3.50, MP1 raises to $16.75

So, he limped preflop and called my raise. With this guy that didn't narrow his range at all. Then he check raised on the flop. I saw later that his check raising frequency was 6% total and 10% on the flop.

What would your move be here?

I think the best play here is to call and then jam turn. There are no action killing cards that can come and basically no draws (other than QJ for a gutshot) so we don't really worry about giving a free card here. If hes bluffing, let him hang himself on the turn. If he has total air then he is going to fold if you jam the flop. Give him some rope to hang himself.

Btw, 1.3AF is actually pretty high considering he plays 91% of hands.

yeah, call then call the inevitable turn shove. as bw says jamming the flop allows villain to get away from his bluff (whereas calling will invariably lead to a turn followup from villain because he is a spewtard), and folding tptk against this guy is akin to throwing money away.

Raise flop c-bet of 10% really isn't all that high, but I'm not folding here either. Fish like this will randomly shove stuff like 84 in this spot.

c9h13no3 said:

Raise flop c-bet of 10% really isn't all that high, but I'm not folding here either.

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The 10% is his flop check raising frequency -- raise cbet on flop was actually lower, 8%. So he was check raising out of position more than he was raising in position. Not that it changes anything, just saying....

bw07507 said:

Btw, 1.3AF is actually pretty high considering he plays 91% of hands.

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Can someone explain to me how that works? That would be a low AF for a tighter player.

I probably woulda just pushed after flop, simply because if he had a gut shot and hit on turn, that woulda been worse I think...

roundcat said:

Can someone explain to me how that works? That would be a low AF for a tighter player.

Click to expand...

Some one that plays 5/5/1 is passive postflop considering his range, some one that plays 90/10/1 is rather aggro postflop.
Basicly the first players range is so super strong that he should probably be value betting every hand he play every street,but he doesnt.
Thats why when a nit has a high AF it just means he is betting his strong hands(witch are almost all of them).
Where as this guy is playing every hand so 1,6 AF means he is betting super weak hands.....

sindri_93 said:

Some one that plays 5/5/1 is passive postflop considering his range, some one that plays 90/10/1 is rather aggro postflop.
Basicly the first players range is so super strong that he should probably be value betting every hand he play every street,but he doesnt.
Thats why when a nit has a high AF it just means he is betting his strong hands(witch are almost all of them).
Where as this guy is playing every hand so 1,6 AF means he is betting super weak hands.....

Click to expand...

OK, that makes sense. I was still curious about the numbers -- what formula is used to calculate aggression factor -- and found a good article here:

http://www.overcards.com/art-AF.php

It describes someone who sees 75% of flops and has an AF of 1.5 to be "ridiculously aggressive."

I'm headed out for a show and a burrito but will post results of the hand when I get back.

In case anyone is interested, here's how the hand played out:

After his flop check raise, I shoved and he called. My AQ beat his AT and I doubled my stack. He eventually lost the rest of his money to other players at the table, reloaded once, lost that too, and left.

Careful table selection at work!

Just check-all the way, cos this smells of passive play with AA OR KK.