$50 NLHE Full Ring: KK in 4bet pot, confused everywhere

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switch0723

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$50 NL HE Full Ring: KK in 4bet pot, confused everywhere

villain is 11/7 with 0% 3bet over 160 hands

Im basically confused on every action of every street, so this is a line check more than anything


poker stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

CO: $74.45 (148.9 bb)
BTN: $59.35 (118.7 bb)
SB: $45.55 (91.1 bb)
BB: $50 (100 bb)
UTG+1: $40.05 (80.1 bb)
MP1: $59.75 (119.5 bb)
Hero (MP2): $60.65 (121.3 bb)
MP3: $31.85 (63.7 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is MP2 with K
club.gif
K
diamond.gif

2 folds, Hero raises to $2, MP3 folds, CO raises to $6, 3 folds, Hero raises to $15.50, CO calls $9.50

Flop: ($31.75) T
diamond.gif
J
club.gif
Q
heart.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($31.75) 7
club.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $15, Hero calls $15

River: ($61.75) Q
spade.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $43.95 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results: $61.75 pot ($3 rake)
CO mucked and won $58.75 ($28.25 net)
 
S93

S93

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Wow. Every street is so sick, and i agree im confused as well.

I probably play it the exact same way seeing his range is like JJ+AK and all thouse hands out floped you.

On second thought i just fold the turn aswell, where geting a decent price but or implied odds aint so good.
I dont think where geting paid to often if we hit the 9,K or A and seeing his range has alot of AK,AA in it alot of times we do improve he already has us drawing dead or makes the nuts to our second nuts.
So basicly just a allround shitty spot.
 
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bfw0082

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Ya, on that board probably best to let it go on the river, I would put this player on AQ, although AJ isn't out of the question, since there was a check on the flop, a feeler bet on the turn, and a last resort all in push on the River, confident you are not holding the Queen.

I know the odds are not in favor of a call here, but I think KK wins it, and going on how the hand played out, I would have to call here....

But I would also throw out a bet on the flop to try and represent the AK Straight, most likely a continuation bet ends the hand right on the flop and we dont have to worry about what the other player has, since he doesnt have AK

-- So you call the turn bet $15, which this $15 would have been better spent leading out after the flop, he calls, ... back off, check it and play the opponent, and if you think you are beat fold, get the same result, but leading out $15 has a very good chance of taking it down...

So I think that is something to consider in the future when you are in a hand like this.

The way this was played, the $15 call was a bad call IMO, since you were not willing to risk any money on the flop.
 
S93

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Ya, on that board probably best to let it go on the river, I would put this player on AQ, although AJ isn't out of the question, since there was a check on the flop, a feeler bet on the turn, and a last resort all in push on the River, confident you are not holding the Queen.
You really expect a villain that has a 0% 3bet over 160hands to 3bet/call 4bet with AJ or AQ?
Imo his range is basicly just JJ+AK.

I know the odds are not in favor of a call here, but I think KK wins it, and going on how the hand played out, I would have to call here....
what hands other then JJ+AK does a tight player with no 3bet/4bet history do this with?

But I would also throw out a bet on the flop to try and represent the AK Straight, most likely a continuation bet ends the hand right on the flop and we dont have to worry about what the other player has, since he doesnt have AK
How do u know he doesnt have AK? AK is surly checking back this flop atleast sometimes.

-- So you call the turn bet $15, which this $15 would have been better spent leading out after the flop, he calls, ... back off, check it and play the opponent, and if you think you are beat fold, get the same result, but leading out $15 has a very good chance of taking it down...

So I think that is something to consider in the future when you are in a hand like this.

The way this was played, the $15 call was a bad call IMO, since you were not willing to risk any money on the flop.
above.
 
WVHillbilly

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Just fold the turn. There is nothing in his range that you beat. That board sucks.
 
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bfw0082

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I don't think the range is that tight, I just dont see a tight player like you are saying he is slow play this flop, he would take it down quick.

Now, moving onto what I said, where you say, how do you know he doesnt have AK,

I said lead out on the flop, make a continuation bet... if he folds then we know he doesnt have Ak, he makes the call or raises, then we fold... AK is most likely the hand they have, the player checks the flop really making it hard to figure out what they are holding, then calling the turn when not willing to bet the flop is a poor play.

what do I know, I play HORSE and other limit games :p
 
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Cdub512

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I think the kk fold on that board was a good fold. The guy could have had ace queen or 2 pair off the flop so you probably saved some money there.

I wouldve bet the flop though with your kk to see where you are in the hand against your opponent. I think getting information for what another player might have is huge in poker.
 
S93

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I don't think the range is that tight, I just dont see a tight player like you are saying he is slow play this flop, he would take it down quick.

Now, moving onto what I said, where you say, how do you know he doesnt have AK,

I said lead out on the flop, make a continuation bet... if he folds then we know he doesnt have Ak, he makes the call or raises, then we fold... AK is most likely the hand they have, the player checks the flop really making it hard to figure out what they are holding, then calling the turn when not willing to bet the flop is a poor play.

what do I know, I play HORSE and other limit games :p
His tight stats only apply to pre-flop play, he could be a total spaz postflop or super passive, we dont know.
 
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switch0723

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Is calling turn really that bad? Its a < half pot size bet, and since by checking twice my hand looks more like a 4bet bluff gone wrong, you don't think there is a chance villain might have a,q or a,j maybe?
 
WVHillbilly

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11/7 don't call 3bets with AJ/AQ, let alone 4 bets.
 
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2_Gearzzz

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I would probably bet about half the pot on the flop and see where he goes from there. If he raises you, i feel like its a fold because there really isnt much you beat except for like pocket 9's. If he does call you flop bet i would shut down unless the Ace comes to complete your straight.
 
blankoblanco

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11/7 don't call 3bets with AJ/AQ, let alone 4 bets.

eh you might be surprised how much bad-ish tight players can suck at folding to 3bets once they're sort of attached to a hand, and same can occasionally go for 4bets (especially small ones)

but imo the real issue is the fact that he 3bet at all. 160 hands is not a huge sample but 11/7 w/ 0% 3bet for that time is still pretty telling. i think this player 3bets AJ here never and AQ very very rarely, 88 never, 99 never. i think if he were 8/7 i'd actually give him a little more credit for possibly 3betting AQ/88/99 PF because 8/7 demonstrate that when he does choose to play a hand, he likes to be the aggressor. but with 11/7 his VPIP and PFR are far enough apart that you can be pretty certain he feels way more comfortable just flatting with those hands (i wouldnt be the least bit surprised if he doesn't 3bet AK here either)

so yeah, you're crushed by everything in his range that makes any sense based on what we know of him. ya sometimes they'll show up with something surprising, but i doubt it's often enough. i can't fault the turn call that much, i mean we have decent equity and it was half-pot, but i'm pretty sure folding there is best. and river is definitely a c/f, even on a blank 2
 
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feitr

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It's an odd hand given the river shove, since villain's range is so tight. I honestly don't think he does this with AA at all since i'm sure a nit would be freaking out of their mind once they saw the Q pair (even tho your range + river check means you never have a Q) and given the rest of the board.

So his hand looks like JJ or AK (he might not even 3B AK and if he does he might fold it to a 4B - same for JJ) but even if his line is somewhat polarized there is like absolutely no hand at all that you can possibly beat on this board. Line looks fine to me, and i don't think you should fold this turn.
 
Deco

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His range is TT+ and AK at most.

TT-QQ=Set
AA=Higher overpair
AK=straight

His entire range crushes you. Don't put another penny in!

These sort of hands are were hand reading comes in handy rather than thinking ooo straight draw and overpair epic shove!
You should have folded the turn.
 
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