$50 NLHE Full Ring: Did i play ok? And should i be folding from the 2 all ins?

Ducky7

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Opener is a bad reg running a 14/11 (400 hands)
3b'r is a 65/15 with a 3b of 14% (small sample <50 hands)

2 questions -
1) Should i be 4b'ing this spot or is it bad with the initial raiser being tight
2) I should be calling with 3.5:1 on my money depsite his range being KK and AA, and maybe QQ? Or is this wrong? Was a wierd spot didnt really know what to do and once the initial raiser shoved it felt like Kings. (Dont know why but it did ha)

poker stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 1862983
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $19.01
BB: $76.81
UTG: $26.72
UTG+1: $38.84
MP1: $50.00
MP2: $30.95
CO: $142.85
Hero (BTN): $55.65

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN with Q :heart: A :heart:
UTG raises to $1.50, UTG+1 calls $1.50, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $3.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $10, 2 folds, UTG raises to $26.72 all in, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $30.95 all in, Hero calls $20.95

Flop: ($90.87) 8 :spade: 2 :heart: 2 :spade: (3 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: ($90.87) Q :spade: (3 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($90.87) J :heart: (3 players - 2 are all in)
 
bgomez89

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I feel so dirty for wanting to fold pre but since UTG looks like a reg he probably has a pretty good hand so yeah I'd dump AQ here
 
acky100

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ugh i don't feel like folding yet. Guys obviously a retard and reg is going to call a shit ton more than he 4bet gets it in, so i can see calling being... ok...:/
Then i wonder if 3betting to iso the drooler is better than calling. Really not worried about the reg at all as he is going to tell us when he has us crushed. Depending on how dumb you think the fish is raising and getting it in could be an option.. so could 3betting expecting a lot of calls from him with just like ATo and stacking on any flop. Not sure, dont fancy folding yet though.

UTG stack size doesn't seem very reggy, you sure he's a reg?! Not a russian scumbag shortstacker?
 
Ducky7

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Was mass mutli tabling and saw a bunch of dead money (I blame the Milestone hands ha) but an interesting topic nevertheless
 
Ducky7

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ugh i don't feel like folding yet. Guys obviously a retard and reg is going to call a shit ton more than he 4bet gets it in, so i can see calling being... ok...:/
Then i wonder if 3betting to iso the drooler is better than calling. Really not worried about the reg at all as he is going to tell us when he has us crushed. Depending on how dumb you think the fish is raising and getting it in could be an option.. so could 3betting expecting a lot of calls from him with just like ATo and stacking on any flop. Not sure, dont fancy folding yet though.

UTG stack size doesn't seem very reggy, you sure he's a reg?! Not a russian scumbag shortstacker?

I only called the all in because of the mong calling as well, was more than happy to get it in vs him. And ye hes defo a reg seen him on a fair few of my tables at the time

He might be a Russian Shortstacker actually ill double check inabit, but i probably overuled that for a bad reg coz he had done something tard'd previously
 
JCgrind

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ugh i don't feel like folding yet. Guys obviously a retard and reg is going to call a shit ton more than he 4bet gets it in, so i can see calling being... ok...:/

this is kind of my line of thinkngg. But I don't like that we may be squeezed out by UTG shoving. Like acky said though, it'll mostly be a "ugh this banana like min 3b me again? Ugh call" as opposed to him iso shoving.
Having said all that, I don't like doing Anything other than folding when Utg opener is a shortstack because you just know he's going to be willing to get it in with such a huge chunk of his range.

As played ye snap it off pre imo. Interesting thread though, keen to keep my eye on it.
 
bgomez89

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UTG stack size doesn't seem very reggy, you sure he's a reg?! Not a russian scumbag shortstacker?
Oh wow this is pretty interesting, didn't notice the stack size on UTG. That being said he's probably a short stacker so now I don't know what to do.
 
John A

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Reasonable stack sizes, you can probably get away w/ calling pre, but considering stacks folding is more appropriate. A bad 14/11 reg is going to have a pretty tight range UTG. Only reason we'd consider calling is if he is a bad reg he'll call a ton of hands and we can still stay in the pot with the fish. If he 4-bets once you flat the 3 bet (assuming normal stacks), it's an easy fold.
 
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Quite an interesting/annoying spot really give their stack sizes.

However, because UTG is so tight, it's kind of a horrible spot to 4bet as you know he will fold out worse (although I don't think he's ever weak given stats + UTG open) so he only ever jams better and you're likely crushed by JJ+ A,K most times.

Problem is I think before you even 4bet, it's ultimately decision time. Commit or fold.

You have to be willing to go with the hand now as there are no more options when MP2 3bets other than get your chips in or fold and because you elect to now 4bet given their stack sizes, there are no real 4bet fold/options vs them so even if one just comes along, purely because of nice pot odds. I think you have to call of UTG jam + MP call. I guess we have MP crushed but when we 4bet, and UTG jams we're dead. Flatting the BTN I guess would be bad given their stack sizes + UTG might squeeze which ain't all bad but again, we can't expect to ever be good. So yeah basically I think when you 4bet though vs these stack sizes followed by UTG jam + MP All in I think you are committed now and have to call it off..

Personally, I'd of just folded when MP2 3bet as I assume we have him crushed which is quite frustrating but I think, given stack sizes we can get MP to give us his chips in a better spot without trying to push out a stronger range from UTG (which he will never fold anyway give his stack size)
 
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Cafeman

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Hmmm. Bit of an icky spot that. You might be better off folding pre given that a) we don't close the action and b) they haven't got much in the way of money at the table. I guess if we do flat and UTG shoves we need to find a fold, especially given the specific read:-
it felt like Kings

No folding once you 4bet though... just GAMBLE!
 
acky100

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If the UTG guy is a russian shorty, probs the best assumption because the games are full of them then i'm more than happy 4bet calling now. Most of them russian shorties (and 100bb regs for that matter) fold about 70% of their opening range to 3bets to begin with. given stack sizes and the fact that MP is a huge retard i just like 4bet getting it in, usually we get it in vs MP's retarded spazzy range, rarely we get it in and UTG has something like KK and we're still not in terrible shape
 
WVHillbilly

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If the UTG guy is a russian shorty, probs the best assumption because the games are full of them then i'm more than happy 4bet calling now. Most of them russian shorties (and 100bb regs for that matter) fold about 70% of their opening range to 3bets to begin with. given stack sizes and the fact that MP is a huge retard i just like 4bet getting it in, usually we get it in vs MP's retarded spazzy range, rarely we get it in and UTG has something like KK and we're still not in terrible shape
If he's going to be folding to the 3bet so often why not just flat and play HU with position vs the spazz? I still fold Russian or not btw.
 
JCgrind

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Considering how much of a noob MP is, against all good reason and logic I like flatting the button, as from the small amount of 50NL I've seen, people don't really like 4betting... Unless they're Russians lol. However I've only played like 15k hands here so could be totally off.

EDIT: WV's post came through as I was typing mine, I agree with him fully
 
acky100

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Yeah calling is definitely fine i think, unless russian shorty gets a bit frisky and decides that with the money in the middle he's going to shove his 88 or whatever, then we might make a big mistake when we fold. I definitely think we can call here and make money though just because MP is gonna have worse aces and worse queens when he does a stupid min 3bet.
 
JCgrind

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I kinda like just flatting MPs 3b now regardless the more I think about it. Actions gunna go 1 of 2 ways;
1. Russian shoves (now a much wider range than he would over our 4b), noob calls/reshoves and we come along too
2. Russian folds, and we crush the noob HU IP
 
Cafeman

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i just like 4bet getting it in
I remember the days when you used to wee yourself if someone got it AIPF with AQ. What happened acky, what happened man?!

Overall, I guess it's probably pretty close since we are all a little bit ummy and arry about it - 'cept WV who's folding no matter where they come from!
 
Ducky7

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I knew i was beat, once UTG reshoves i felt he had a super tight range but with so much money in the pot i didnt think i should be folding, plus im crushing / flipping vs a bunch of the drooler's range

Just for the record, i hate calling the 3b pre, just think there arent many flops im going to like and its a 4b or fold for me personally, just tried to end the action there with all the dead money in the pot, hence why i made it so big
 
WVHillbilly

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I knew i was beat, once UTG reshoves i felt he had a super tight range but with so much money in the pot i didnt think i should be folding, plus im crushing / flipping vs a bunch of the drooler's range

Just for the record, i hate calling the 3b pre, just think there arent many flops im going to like and its a 4b or fold for me personally, just tried to end the action there with all the dead money in the pot, hence why i made it so big
So you were turning your hand into a bluff? Hate it even more. Fold pre>>>Call>>>4bet imo
 
John A

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I knew i was beat, once UTG reshoves i felt he had a super tight range but with so much money in the pot i didnt think i should be folding, plus im crushing / flipping vs a bunch of the drooler's range

Just for the record, i hate calling the 3b pre, just think there arent many flops im going to like and its a 4b or fold for me personally, just tried to end the action there with all the dead money in the pot, hence why i made it so big

If you're only playing your hand for showdown value, then you'd be correct to try and solve the hand pre-flop only. You have position though and you have more options than just showing your hand down. Additionally you have a really bad player that you now have position on in a re-raised pot = good.
 
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