$50 NLHE Full Ring: Bottom Set

$50 NL HE Full Ring: Bottom Set

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 25/4/2

What do you do with bottom set here in a limped pot after raising and being reraised by the big blind on the flop? Shove or fold?

Villain is 25/4/2 over ~2000 hands.

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$0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

UTG+2: $6.35 (12.7 bb)
MP1: $31 (62 bb)
MP2: $20 (40 bb)
Hero (MP3): $34.45 (68.9 bb)
CO: $23.19 (46.4 bb)
BTN: $71.77 (143.5 bb)
SB: $24 (48 bb)
BB: $108.95 (217.9 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is MP3 with 3 3
3 folds, Hero calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, BTN calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks

Flop: ($2.50) 9 3 J (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets $2, Hero raises to $5, CO folds, BTN folds, SB folds, BB raises to $18

First of all, we hate ourselves for not playing 100bb deep.

Then we hate ourselves for open-limping because every time someone open-limps, the poker gods kill a kitten.

And then we fist pump shove.

DISCLAIMER: I have very little experience in limped pots. I never limp, so i only get to play those from the BB.

you make a standard raise with any PP in any pos, BS? I think it's interesting. I'll limp low PP's EP and raise them in LP's...so could you explain why? maybe to avoid situations like this and have a better idea of peoples range if they call a raise rather than limp along with you?

KingCurtis said:

you make a standard raise with any PP in any pos, BS? I think it's interesting. I'll limp low PP's EP and raise them in LP's...so could you explain why? maybe to avoid situations like this and have a better idea of peoples range if they call a raise rather than limp along with you?

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The reason i don't limp with pocket pairs is that at my stakes, my opponents are decent enough to make set mining out of position -EV. And when you limp small pp, your goal is to obviously set mine oop.

Not that the reason is not to avoid limped pots. The reason is to avoid having to limp/call a late position raise and fold to his cbet unimproved, while getting very little money out of him when we hit our set as his iso-raising range from LP is not strong enough. In other words, set mining oop sucks.

So in EP, i either raise or fold my small pp.

BelgoSuisse said:

The reason i don't limp with pocket pairs is that at my stakes, my opponents are decent enough to make set mining out of position -EV. And when you limp small pp, your goal is to obviously set mine oop.

Not that the reason is not to avoid limped pots. The reason is to avoid having to limp/call a late position raise and fold to his cbet unimproved, while getting very little money out of him when we hit our set as his iso-raising range from LP is not strong enough. In other words, set mining oop sucks.

So in EP, i either raise or fold my small pp.

Click to expand...

ok thanks

I dont mind the limp but given the fact that you re raised and then he re raised again leads me to beleive that your 3's are no good. Id probably fold it here.

Well, I started out 100bb deep but hadn't topped off. I often do but was getting ready to quit for the night.

About the open limping -- I try to avoid that, but at 50NL on Absolute, especially when the jackpot is high, it doesn't seem to make much difference whether I limp or raise a small pair preflop. There will always be someone coming along and frequently no raise after me. I'll end up folding postflop most of the time if I don't hit my set and there's any kind of action (so it's money saved preflop), and I'll get paid off about 95% of the time if I do hit my set and someone else makes as little as top pair, good kicker. If there are two or three extra players along there's more of a chance of someone hitting something and wanting to pay me off, so I'm fine with that. So for me, it's less of a money leak preflop to sometimes open limp with small pairs. Of course, limping small pairs in EP is transparent to good opponents -- and there are some at that limit -- but most are ready to limp along and ship it postflop anyway.

If my rationale above is flawed, please help me avoid a future of being involved in the senseless deaths of kittens.

well, if your opponents are bad enough to let you see flops without iso-raising you, open-limping is fine. Exploitable, obviously, but it does not matter if there's nobody to exploit it.

Just realize that if you move up, it will become a leak at some point.

If I open limp in the forest but no one is there to iso-raise, have I really limped at all?

Put him in. Or rather, yourself, since he has you outstacked.

The only thing I worry about here is 99, unless he's so weak preflop as to limp JJ from the BB in a mulitway pot. More likely is some two pair big blind special.

Drawy board and less than a full stack, I can't ship this fast enough.

To a semi-nit like me, raising low PP's is table-read & position dependant. In the HJ like you are, raising 33 here is nearly automatic. Even if you have loose players who will almost always call from the blinds, you are still in position post-flop. You really only have to worry about the CO and Button since they will have better position.

Post-flop as played is a no-brainer shove. What beats us here? JJ will most likely have raised preflop. Does 99 limp here and hit middle set? A stretch, but possible. The 3-bet flop is more likely to be TPGK, 2 pair, a good draw to the flush or straight, or possibly an aggro shark with air trying to bully you off your hand. I've actually run into the latter quite a few times at 50NL on Stars recently.

MrSticker said:

Post-flop as played is a no-brainer shove. What beats us here? JJ will most likely have raised preflop. Does 99 limp here and hit middle set? A stretch, but possible. The 3-bet flop is more likely to be TPGK, 2 pair, a good draw to the flush or straight, or possibly an aggro fish with air trying to bully you off your hand. I've actually run into the latter quite a few times at 50NL on Stars recently.

Click to expand...

FYP

WVHillbilly said:

Drawy board and less than a full stack, I can't ship this fast enough.

Click to expand...

This. With your stack size you can't fold this, ever.

Thanks, guys, for the feedback.

As the hand played out I did ship it on the flop and got showed the 99.