$50 NLHE Full Ring: AKs facing a 5 bet

Hujiko

Hujiko

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PokerStars - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 118 BB
UTG+1: 121.6 BB
MP: 90.5 BB (VPIP: 6.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 15)
CO: 138.6 BB
BTN: 100 BB
Hero (SB): 101.66 BB
BB: 46.56 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K A

UTG raises to 2.5 BB, UTG+1 calls 2.5 BB, MP raises to 10 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 29 BB, fold, fold, fold, MP raises to 90.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 61.5 BB

Flop: (187 BB, 2 players) Q 8 Q

Turn: (187 BB, 2 players) 4

River: (187 BB, 2 players) 2

MP wins 183 BB

MP had AA

Was looking through my games lately and noticed this one. I think I should have made a nitty fold here what do you guys think?

My reasoning now would be villain 3 bets from MP over an early raiser and a caller. Given the normal hand strengths of EP raiser the range of MP is very strong QQ+, AKs and AKo and maybe some Axs as bluffs. Now I 4 bet from the BTN which gives me a very strong range (KK+ and AKs not many bluffs) and the villain in MP 5 bets me. I think his bluffs are gone now and only AA, KK and AKs remain and he will either call with QQ and AKo or fold them most of the time, even AKs might just make the call or fold to my 4 bet. So 90% of the time I am up against AA, KK or perhaps AKs which don't give me the odds to call.
 
Bricxjo

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It sure is hard to let AK suited go, but I think I would have had to with the 5 bet. The question is could I, it is easy to say that seeing the result of the hand, but I am not so sure I could fold if I were in your place.
 
Ryan Laplante

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Fairly readless in 50nl can possibly fold, vs a decent Reg I would not tho.
 
Misaki

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it's a fr, people are generally tighter than 6 max players and cold 4bet/fold looks decent. That kind of action should be enough profitable to play this way. Especially when we have blockers to kings and aces. vs 5 bet I can't imagine that he will show you something worse. if I counted pot odds correctly we need 31% equity. versus KK+ we have 23%. just fold.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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This is standard, once you 4bet you're pot committed.

IMO, the only other way to play this would be to fold to the 3bet preflop if you had more hands/better reads on villain.
 
Hujiko

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it's a fr, people are generally tighter than 6 max players and cold 4bet/fold looks decent. That kind of action should be enough profitable to play this way. Especially when we have blockers to kings and aces. vs 5 bet I can't imagine that he will show you something worse. if I counted pot odds correctly we need 31% equity. versus KK+ we have 23%. just fold.

Many opinions but have to agree with this one.
 
PaxMundi

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4bet folding is fine in this spot imo,i think your looking at KK+ for villain 5betting over a cold 4bet.And your not pot committed vs KK+.
 
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RakeMyLife

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Would probably call too. Deep stacked I'm willing to 4bet-fold to a jam, but here I'm calling most of the time, hoping to see my hand or QQ.
 
TenJack

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Easy fold imo. Yeah, we have blockers, yeah its suited, but AK is shit versus most 5-bet ranges vs a cold 4-bet. we are screwed versus aces and baring a diamonds or TJx flop we have 4 outs vs. KK

What does villain 5-bet jam with? He would have to be capable of getting WAYYY out of line with QQ. even then we are flipping. Yikes. Choping at best if he is being stupid with AK (because we have to assume when we see a cold 4-bet that is willing to call a 5-bet we have ran into either KK or AA)

Overall avoid stacking off pre in a a full ring cash game with AK, suited or no.
 
TenJack

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This is standard, once you 4bet you're pot committed.

IMO, the only other way to play this would be to fold to the 3bet preflop if you had more hands/better reads on villain.



We can't use pot-commit as an excuse to gii when we are way behind and we know it. As hujiko says, he figures now to be up against AA, KK 90% of time, and we chop/flip with the other 10 %. Yuck It's one thing to get coolered, its another thing to sigh, say "oh well" and gii bad when you know ur beat.

Also, we only put in 30 BB. Chump change if we are rolled properly, just rebuy.
 
PaxMundi

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A hand like JJ plays the same way AK does here.We don't really want to be over calling 3bets especially oop and enticing multi way action with a vulnerable hand.We would much rather 4bet and pick up the dead money preflop. And if called our hand does have good equity vs a calling range.They have pretty terrible equity vs a 5bet shove range though unless villain is pretty aggressive.
 
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You can 4b 25 bb and vs unknown you can easy fold after his 5b.
I need stats to start thinking this 5b is not only AA and KK.
 
Jdjakubisin

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PokerStars - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 118 BB
UTG+1: 121.6 BB
MP: 90.5 BB (VPIP: 6.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
CO: 138.6 BB
BTN: 100 BB
Hero (SB): 101.66 BB
BB: 46.56 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K A

UTG raises to 2.5 BB, UTG+1 calls 2.5 BB, MP raises to 10 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 29 BB, fold, fold, fold, MP raises to 90.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 61.5 BB

Flop: (187 BB, 2 players) Q 8 Q

Turn: (187 BB, 2 players) 4

River: (187 BB, 2 players) 2

MP wins 183 BB

MP had AA

Was looking through my games lately and noticed this one. I think I should have made a nitty fold here what do you guys think?

My reasoning now would be villain 3 bets from MP over an early raiser and a caller. Given the normal hand strengths of EP raiser the range of MP is very strong QQ+, AKs and AKo and maybe some Axs as bluffs. Now I 4 bet from the BTN which gives me a very strong range (KK+ and AKs not many bluffs) and the villain in MP 5 bets me. I think his bluffs are gone now and only AA, KK and AKs remain and he will either call with QQ and AKo or fold them most of the time, even AKs might just make the call or fold to my 4 bet. So 90% of the time I am up against AA, KK or perhaps AKs which don't give me the odds to call.


If you play every day, this hand happens every day. If you play with someone, their raise with AA is usually a little telling. Quick reactions are more evident. Thats the only thing that can really be said if you want people to post advice.
 
TheBigFinn

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Hero is calling 61.5 to win 134.6. What range would Villain have to have to make this profitable? For starters AA and KK. Since you block them there are 3 combinations of each. Remembering AK is racing against all pairs and chopping other AKs, one needs to believe Villain with bluff or bet AQs and AJs. I don't think that is likely. Do I fold.
 
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Even though I do agree with fold, I don’t think I could do it given we have data that MP is under stacked with 90bb. It’s more likely even given the 15 hands nit history that his range is wider than we can ever rationally conclude.

It’s full ring though, so well dunno.
 
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