$50 NLHE Full Ring: 33 3Bet Pot Non-Standard Line

$50 NL HE Full Ring: 33 3Bet Pot Non-Standard Line

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 25/19/2

Ok so Villain here is pretty aggressive and Steals about 50%. I've been aggressive 21/19/3 with a 7% 3Bet. Check-raising flops as bluffs in 3Bet pots is something I've been experimenting with and I find it to be so successful b/c villains tend to start flatting alot of my 3Bets pretty wide and then seem to give my CBets less respect. They also seem to bet 100% of their range after being checked to. Just looking for some thoughts on this hand and this type of play in general.

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HAND #1
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poker stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 7 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

MP2: $20.35 (40.7 bb)
MP3: $184.75 (369.5 bb)
CO: $50.75 (101.5 bb)
BTN: $29.75 (59.5 bb)
Hero (SB): $50 (100 bb)
BB: $50 (100 bb)
MP1: $50 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with 3 3
MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 folds, CO raises to $2.50, BTN folds, Hero raises to $7, 2 folds, CO calls $4.50

Flop: ($15) 7 J 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $10, Hero raises to $22

Looks pretty high variance to me. I can understand the squeeze here, but how often is he folding to 3bets, or cbets in 3bet pots, wtsd? What is his range for calling 3bets? I would want to know these things before committing 60% of my stack with hardly any equity when behind. If he's not folding then obv. just 3bet for value. It's definately player dependant, but i would want a pretty good read to risk this much money fighting over a pot that was originally $4

Fold to 3-bet & fold to c-bet are kinda important here.

Ya sorry forgot about those two stats and they are quite relevant. Fold to 3Bet is 74% and Fold to CBet is 48%.

The main thing about this play is it looks soooooo strong and most regs or semi-competent players will throw away some really big hands. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he threw away QQ after I make this play because they don't think that I'm going to c/r bluff in a 3Bet pot.

No one folds overpairs in 3-bet pots, and his fold to 3-bet % is very high. Thus when he calls you, he has a strong range.

Furthermore, when he just calls with position, he probably holds 99-QQ/AQ, with AK/AA/KK being discounted. All the pairs he calls with other than TT really like this board. Given his strong range, and the fact that he doesn't fold very often to c-bets, I think I just check/fold this flop. But I do agree that check/raising is probably better than c-betting since this guy will peel you light on the flop.

So I think the 3-bet preflop is awesome, but once he calls and we don't hit our set, check/folding > check/raising > c-betting in my opinion.

Your first statement, imo, is wrong as I do think some people will throw away overpairs in 3Bet pots. Honestly if you had QQ in his spot what can you put me on that you beat? If I had AK or a worse hand wouldn't I have just lead at the flop?

Another thing worth noting is that the 74% Fold to 3Bet might not be an accurate representation of his flatting range preflop b/c I'm pretty sure he was getting fed up with being 3Bet a ton from me. (Obv I'm 3Betting this guy alot since he steals wide and folds to 3Bets well.) So his range might not be as strong as the stat would indicate.

rileyl said:

Your first statement, imo, is wrong as I do think some people will throw away overpairs in 3Bet pots. Honestly if you had QQ in his spot what can you put me on that you beat? If I had AK or a worse hand wouldn't I have just lead at the flop?

Click to expand...

I don't care, I don't fold over pairs in 3-bet pots 100bb's deep, especially to aggressive light 3-betting players. Maybe if you were a 10/9/0.001 I would fold queens here, but it would take a soul read.

rileyl said:

Another thing worth noting is that the 74% Fold to 3Bet might not be an accurate representation of his flatting range preflop b/c I'm pretty sure he was getting fed up with being 3Bet a ton from me. (Obv I'm 3Betting this guy alot since he steals wide and folds to 3Bets well.) So his range might not be as strong as the stat would indicate.

Click to expand...

It depends. Some guys adjust to your 3-bets by messing with you. Other more risk averse players adjust by going "hahaha, next time I get kings I'm going to take his whole stack". And you need to realize that if you've been messing with him, your scary line is going to get less respect. You're going to get called down super light.

So yeah, maybe if the game flow was right, this is merely okay, but whenever I think a guy is 3-betting me a ton over the session, and I 4-bet bluff shove, they often just show up with a big hand. Example:

Dealt to Hero [ 7s As ]
ROBYOUBLI333 calls [$1.00 USD]
GAFELTAFISH calls [$1.00 USD]
Hero raises [$5.50 USD]
Villain raises [$20.00 USD]
RAPTOR888 folds
MADSKILLZKID folds
ROBYOUBLI333 folds
GAFELTAFISH folds
Hero raises [$87.00 USD]
Villain calls [$72.50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, 2s, Ac ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ks ]
** Dealing River ** [ 9h ]
Hero shows [7s, As ]
Villain shows [Qc, Qh ]
Hero wins $185.00 USD from main pot

What seperates that hand from yours is that in my hand, I had 32% equity in the pot. You have jack-squat. Yeah, this bluff will work enough to break even, but its never going to be a big money play for you. Like, sure, you can mix stuff up like this to help your image, but this play (bluffing players with a likely strong range) is not an edge. If anything its a ~0 EV play that's going to be awesome for your table image. Don't get me wrong, I don't think its super spew or anything, but this is not a money making move.

Ok you make alot of good points, but your 4Bet bluff-shove and my hand are really completely different scenarios but I do get what your saying about my equity.

For the results (ya i know not to be results oriented), he folded and then told me how good he was that he folded QQ. I think this move is super profitable if I am getting people to fold hands like this. Now the trick is finding the right players and as you said it's AWESOME for table image.