€50 NLHE 6-max: Will this always be a cooler?

Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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So this has been happening a lot at 50NL that my QQ runs into AA/KK. Part of the reason is that there are only a few regs who don't 3 bet light so I believe it becomes quite necessary to 4 bet as QQ is vulnerable to be out flopped by a LAG 3 bet range. There are hardly any nits here against whom I'll flat out fold QQ to a 3 bet.

So what I am asking is that is this simply a standard variance I have to accept with 100BB stacks against these sort of players? Or do you think simply flatting QQ would work better even OOP?

And yes I made a big 4 bet here but it's totally consistent with my AA/KK 4 bets so I don't think it should be changed.

I have also significantly reduced my pre flop aggression with AK because when I shove AK I hardly ever get called by a non PP hand at 50NL except AK. Not quite sure I should do the same with QQ so I do sometimes get looked up by JJ/TT.

iPoker - €0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 108.58 BB
BTN: 160.42 BB (VPIP: 27.88, PFR: 22.05, 3Bet Preflop: 14.37, hands: 400)
SB: 105.98 BB (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 21.58, 3Bet Preflop: 8.11, Hands: 1,475)
BB: 241.8 BB (VPIP: 26.41, PFR: 20.58, 3Bet Preflop: 10.76, Hands: 531)
UTG: 100.98 BB (VPIP: 34.19, PFR: 19.83, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 119)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:spade: Q:diamond:

fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, BTN raises to 8 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 28 BB, BTN raises to 160.42 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 80.58 BB

Flop: (218.66 BB, 2 players) A:club: 8:spade: 5:spade:

Turn: (218.66 BB, 2 players) T:spade:

River: (218.66 BB, 2 players) 2:spade:

Hero shows Q:spade: Q:diamond: (Flush, Queen High)
(Pre 19%, Flop 13%, Turn 25%)
BTN shows K:club: K:heart: (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 81%, Flop 87%, Turn 75%)
Hero wins 212.66 BB
BTN wins 51.84 BB

And yesssss I sucked out. :D
 
John A

John A

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As long as you suckout, nothing else matters! ;)

I know you're asking this because you're going through a bad run w/ this hand. I know you know that if someone's 5-bet jamming range ~ 100bbs deep is only AK/QQ+, then it's profitable to 4-bet call QQ. You know you're picking up X BB's a large percentage of the time without seeing a flop against an aggressive opponent OOP. It's a +EV play. Your question though, is it better to just call.... well, as you know it depends. Personally, I call a lot with QQ's against other regs that 3-bet too much. I love keeping their weaker ranges in, and getting them to make some big post flop mistakes. I think it depends on how comfortable you are w/ your read on your opponent and playing OOP. I personally think it's much more profitable to call w/ it, but not always of course.

I just played this hand last night almost exactly. I open in MP w/ QQ and get 3-bet by an aggressive Reg. We're about 120 bbs effective though. I just call, and we get to the river on a 9 high flop that I bet into him on and he calls. He happened to have TT this time, but he timed out and called. If I 4-bet, I'm not 100% sure he stacks off 120 bbs deep w/ TT, but I got max value otherwise.
 
TheBigFinn

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Assuming the villain raises with 7% of his hands, you're a 60/40 favorite. If he 4-bets you can assume his range is half that and at best you're flipping, but you already have your 3-bet in so you have the odds to call.

About 10% of the time you'll see AA and KK three times in a row with that 4 bet range, so it's not that unusual.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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As long as you suckout, nothing else matters! ;)

I know you're asking this because you're going through a bad run w/ this hand. I know you know that if someone's 5-bet jamming range ~ 100bbs deep is only AK/QQ+, then it's profitable to 4-bet call QQ. You know you're picking up X BB's a large percentage of the time without seeing a flop against an aggressive opponent OOP. It's a +EV play. Your question though, is it better to just call.... well, as you know it depends. Personally, I call a lot with QQ's against other regs that 3-bet too much. I love keeping their weaker ranges in, and getting them to make some big post flop mistakes. I think it depends on how comfortable you are w/ your read on your opponent and playing OOP. I personally think it's much more profitable to call w/ it, but not always of course.

I just played this hand last night almost exactly. I open in MP w/ QQ and get 3-bet by an aggressive Reg. We're about 120 bbs effective though. I just call, and we get to the river on a 9 high flop that I bet into him on and he calls. He happened to have TT this time, but he timed out and called. If I 4-bet, I'm not 100% sure he stacks off 120 bbs deep w/ TT, but I got max value otherwise.
Ya I have been running bad with it but it's got to be this way because I almost never fold QQ to a 3 bet at these stakes. I have folded it to a 3 bet plenty of times vs the regs at lower stakes since they play a more transparent game.

I hate calling and allowing random Ax/Kx range to outflop me. But you make a good point about max value I guess for that though I gotta have some sort of reasonable post flop read on a player.

So it's just the reality that variance is higher against good aggressive players. I already hate the KK/AA variance but there has never been a way around it. So I just wasn't happy to lose QQ every single time a LAG has AA/KK. I guess there isn't much of a way around it especially OOP. IP I'll try calling more and see how that turns out.
 
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