$50 NLHE 6-max: Shallow 50NL: Flopped medium flush: line check on turn

ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

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Ok so this was on ipoker so the HH is terrible so I will explain:
Only read on villain is that hes aggro raising maybe 35% of hands and 3/4-betting light. Only been on table 50 hands or so.
Stack sizes: Hero: $20 Villain $30
He raises to $2 UTG
I have [9d] [8d] on the button and call (blinds are super nits and always fold, same this time.
**Flop**(pot=$4.75)
[2d] [3d] [7d]

Villain: Checks
Hero: Bets $2.37, called instantly

**Turn** (pot= 9.49)
[Ah]

Villain: Checks
Hero: Bets $9.49
Villain: Shoves
Hero: obv calls


So was this played OK? Maybe bet $3.50 on flop and shove non-diamond turn? Opinions and criticisms welcome. And NO FOLD PREFLOPS!
 
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Zybomb

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Play a full 100 BB stack.

Post flop is incredibly standard
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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Buy in full.It's def a losing effort to be be calling a UTG's raise with 89.You didn't want to hear it but it's throwing money down the drain.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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(Fold preflop)

Explain why you called preflop, because it seems totally bass-ackwards.
 
ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

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I called because he is a lagtard, and is very likely to pay me off with 1 pair if i flop something big (like here).

Also, can't play a full 100BB stack as I clearly mentioned its a shallow table, so I bought in for full ($25 about 10 hands ago and have $20 left)(no point mentioning auto top up either, I didn't have it on). Anyways, that is Irrelevant in this discussion I am after a line check on how it was played postflop.

Also, against someone as LAG as him, and the fact it's 6-max, the UTG raise doesn't mean shit. 89s is a hand that can flop a hidden monster and I'm in position, so in this particular situation against this particular opponent I am NOT folding preflop.

Personally, I think it was played pretty standard but was just second guessing myself
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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I called because he is a lagtard, and is very likely to pay me off with 1 pair if i flop something big (like here).

Also, can't play a full 100BB stack as I clearly mentioned its a shallow table, so I bought in for full ($25 about 10 hands ago and have $20 left)(no point mentioning auto top up either, I didn't have it on). Anyways, that is Irrelevant in this discussion I am after a line check on how it was played postflop.

Also, against someone as LAG as him, and the fact it's 6-max, the UTG raise doesn't mean shit. 89s is a hand that can flop a hidden monster and I'm in position, so in this particular situation against this particular opponent I am NOT folding preflop.

Personally, I think it was played pretty standard but was just second guessing myself
It is not irrelevant.you call 1\10th of your stack vs a lag utg raise to flop a monster.This would make a little more sence if you had 100bb instead of 40bb but not realy.Your calling 4bb raise with 89 with only 36bb behind to hopfully flop a "monster".
 
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baudib1

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I think OP does not understand the concept behind playing shortstack tables and how it affects hand selection.
 
ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

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OK, well even if the general consensus is to fold pre, i didn't.
 
ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

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I think OP does not understand the concept behind playing shortstack tables and how it affects hand selection.
I think I do understand it well, this is the bottom of my range. But playing shortstacking tables =/= playing like a nit
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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As played i like the $2.37 bet makes some people spazz out.Good pot bet when ace hit turn.insta call shove.
 
ben_rhyno

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Thank you, that's what i was after, the postflop input. As i said, I thought I playe dit ok postflop, just wanted confirmation from better players
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I called because he is a lagtard, and is very likely to pay me off with 1 pair if i flop something big (like here).
So you called for implied odds with shallow stacks against someone who isn't going to let you draw cheap.

Also, against someone as LAG as him, and the fact it's 6-max, the UTG raise doesn't mean shit.
So you're saying he doesn't have a strong range, and he'll fold when you hit?

Its one thing to say you want a postflop line check. But preflop is just SO OUT OF WHACK. Its cool if you understand how poor your preflop call is, and you just want a line check. But just say so.

Lastly, if you need a line check when you flop the nuts with a half stack... yeah....
 
ben_rhyno

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Was basically asking if this is the optimal way to extract the most value. Also, I fully expected to get paid if I hit as he was the type to call down with even 4th pair
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I fully expected to get paid if I hit as he was the type to call down with even 4th pair
Given your stack sizes, and the fact that he isn't going to be letting you draw cheaply because he's aggressive, do you see how this doesn't even matter?

98s will flop two pair or better are 5.58% or 17:1. You can also flop a lot of draws, however, given how short stacks are, its almost certainly -EV to draw to those hands after the flop.

Your opponent raised to $2, and you have $20 in your stack. He's offering you 9:1 implied odds. This isn't even enough to set mine, and a pair will flop a set 13% of the time!

This isn't going to be profitable. If you had a full $50, he'd be offering you 24:1, and he'd have enough money behind to allow you to draw profitably postflop. However, in these short stacked situations, playing speculative implied odds hands just ISN'T profitable.

So yeah, FOLD PREFLOP. SRSLY!
 
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baudib1

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Was basically asking if this is the optimal way to extract the most value. Also, I fully expected to get paid if I hit as he was the type to call down with even 4th pair

This fully illustrates why pre is a disaster. I'm not sure if he's a LAG now or a calling station. The thing is you usually DON'T flop monsters with suited connectors. What you typically flop are weak 1-pair hands or draws. When we flop a draw, it'd be nice if we have some fold equity but if he's calling down with AT on a JT8 board it's not as exciting.
 
ben_rhyno

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OK I get it now, fold pre. If I had a bigger stack I cwould be getting full implied odds but don't have them here
 
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RamdeeBen

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Even vs a super aggro player how aren't suited connectors on the button a good range even if short stacked? I don't get that? These sort of players who have such stats will often be opening up from UTG with suited connectors themselves so I think I'd of called - only with position of course.
 
ben_rhyno

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This was my thinking aswell. I know that prominent members of the forum said to fold pre but i still don't think i would in the same situation
 
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baudib1

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Shortstacking strategy involves playing to make TPTK or overpairs and getting it in on the flop. It denies odds to anyone playing speculative hands. SCs work well in cheap multiway pots or in position with lots and lots of money behind and having good equity to play past the flop against strong ranges when someone will give you 150 BBs with an overpair. Since none of these conditions apply here, you should fold preflop.
 
ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

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Shortstacking strategy involves playing to make TPTK or overpairs and getting it in on the flop. It denies odds to anyone playing speculative hands. SCs work well in cheap multiway pots or in position with lots and lots of money behind and having good equity to play past the flop against strong ranges when someone will give you 150 BBs with an overpair. Since none of these conditions apply here, you should fold preflop.
OK thanks. I actually assumed i had odds but 40BB isnt enough here really, so I understand your reasoning.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Shortstacking strategy involves playing to make TPTK or overpairs and getting it in on the flop. It denies odds to anyone playing speculative hands. SCs work well in cheap multiway pots or in position with lots and lots of money behind and having good equity to play past the flop against strong ranges when someone will give you 150 BBs with an overpair. Since none of these conditions apply here, you should fold preflop.

The thing is no one will get this, especially at micros. Clearly if villian knew this he wouldn't be shoving if ben called the flop would he? He would be under the same understandings as your pointing out that he will be getting it all in at some point anyways if that makes sense? With ben being the short stack and him calling the bet pre flop villian would be check folding no?

i understand your logic and most people who follow strategy poker and short stack poker will know this is what they are doing so I can't see how short stacking can work the way you want it to work at micros.
 
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