£50 NLHE 6-max: Seems like I got trapped big time on the river.

Thinker_145

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This is a really unusual situation I don't remember the last time someone trapped me by checking the river in a continuous betting hand. At max it's check raise on the turn or donk on the river but this is really strange.

iPoker - £0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 50 BB (VPIP: 22.80, PFR: 19.48, 3Bet Preflop: 7.55, hands: 434)
MP: 64.44 BB (VPIP: 20.51, PFR: 10.26, 3Bet Preflop: 3.92, Hands: 121)
Hero (CO): 121.3 BB
BTN: 50 BB (VPIP: 19.64, PFR: 18.45, 3Bet Preflop: 5.45, Hands: 175)
SB: 4.56 BB (VPIP: 60.98, PFR: 15.00, 3Bet Preflop: 9.52, Hands: 42)
BB: 221.36 BB (VPIP: 25.60, PFR: 20.23, 3Bet Preflop: 6.20, Hands: 734)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:diamond: K:diamond:

fold, MP raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 7.5 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 6.5 BB, fold

Flop: (17.5 BB, 2 players) 5:spade: A:spade: 7:heart:
BB checks, Hero bets 8 BB, BB calls 8 BB

Turn: (33.5 BB, 2 players) J:diamond:
BB checks, Hero bets 17 BB, BB calls 17 BB

River: (67.5 BB, 2 players) 2:club:
BB checks, Hero bets 34 BB, BB raises to 188.86 BB and is all-in, Hero :eek: :confused:

55 or 77 I guess? Don't see why he would call the flop with JJ OOP but then again I don't see why he would cold call 3 bet with small PP OOP. Could he also have AK and is trying to blow me away from the split? If we call and he shows 77 then the very fact that we call make his pre cold call +EV?

Should I not be betting the river? Yes I am not beating much here since it's difficult to imagine that the Villain played AQ like this but I really thought if I was beat I would have heard about it earlier than my turn on the river. Ultimately I thought there is value to be had here from a poorly played AQ or KK/QQ so I bet.
 
Aces2w1n

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If you respect the villain checking behind is fine.

I doubt he's shoving all-in with a bluff, i'd say he's put you on a strong ace and knew where he was.
Have you got history on his river shoves?
 
Thinker_145

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If you respect the villain checking behind is fine.

I doubt he's shoving all-in with a bluff, i'd say he's put you on a strong ace and knew where he was.
Have you got history on his river shoves?
No I don't have any particular history with him.

I am not putting him on a bluff just really stumped by the way he played. I don't usually bet lower than 2 pair OTR against players I respect but unfortunately I made an exception here.
 
Figaroo2

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From his stack size, 50% vpip/pfr ratio and opening min raise id say he was a weaker likely more passive player. Those types tend to call 3bets wider than decent regs so I dont discount him having 55 or 77 here in fact Id have them more likely than JJ which is more likely to make a normal opening raise sizing as you aren't worried about getting 3bet with Jacks and dont want too many players in the hand. I have had a few hands like this where weaker players have called big squeezes and 3bets with 33 and 66
I would make my cbet bigger here mainly as he's fishy and likely to call more, maybe 75-80% pot minimum. Id be looking to extract max value out of lesser Ax and to charge the spade and low card draw.
If he calls a bigger cbet and if therefore a bigger turn bet then evidence suggests he might be slow playing. If he has AQ AJ most will just call on the end. Your hand is pretty face up at the end on that run out. Hes saying he beats tptk so Im folding to a likely set of 55 or 77. If it was a bluff its dangerous as many players will call off with AK on that board once they have invested 3 barrels.
 
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what you think about check turn? I dont think u'll get 3 streets from AQ anyway, and then he can still bluff bet river
 
Thinker_145

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From his stack size, 50% vpip/pfr ratio and opening min raise id say he was a weaker likely more passive player. Those types tend to call 3bets wider than decent regs so I dont discount him having 55 or 77 here in fact Id have them more likely than JJ which is more likely to make a normal opening raise sizing as you aren't worried about getting 3bet with Jacks and dont want too many players in the hand. I have had a few hands like this where weaker players have called big squeezes and 3bets with 33 and 66
I would make my cbet bigger here mainly as he's fishy and likely to call more, maybe 75-80% pot minimum. Id be looking to extract max value out of lesser Ax and to charge the spade and low card draw.
If he calls a bigger cbet and if therefore a bigger turn bet then evidence suggests he might be slow playing. If he has AQ AJ most will just call on the end. Your hand is pretty face up at the end on that run out. Hes saying he beats tptk so Im folding to a likely set of 55 or 77. If it was a bluff its dangerous as many players will call off with AK on that board once they have invested 3 barrels.
You are looking at the stats of the MP but we are playing the BB here.
 
Thinker_145

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what you think about check turn? I dont think u'll get 3 streets from AQ anyway, and then he can still bluff bet river
Ya that sounds better I just over valued my hand here. Really sucks how you play perfect for hours and then blow your guard in a massive hand which ends up crushing your win rate.
 
duggs

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No I don't have any particular history with him.

I am not putting him on a bluff just really stumped by the way he played. I don't usually bet lower than 2 pair OTR against players I respect but unfortunately I made an exception here.

you just cant have blanket rules like this, i normally turn up the aggression and bet thinner against better players.

betting river is fine, folding river is fine when he jams, calling the jam would be bad, so would checking behind.
 
Aces2w1n

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No I don't have any particular history with him.

I am not putting him on a bluff just really stumped by the way he played. I don't usually bet lower than 2 pair OTR against players I respect but unfortunately I made an exception here.


I'm seeing this more and more from people jamming rivers with say two pair A2 or even trip 2's ... It's just sick how people play but if he's got it you have to thank him for letting you fold :)


..........................

DO you analyse your play off on tracker? Perhaps you make these mistakes often after a long session? See if there is a pattern and you could take a break before this moment in time where you play perfect poker or quit for the day?? I know there is nothing set in stone but even make notes of how many hands you play before a bad error like this happens...

Just food for thought anyway :)
 
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Thinker_145

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you just cant have blanket rules like this, i normally turn up the aggression and bet thinner against better players.

betting river is fine, folding river is fine when he jams, calling the jam would be bad, so would checking behind.

I actually meant hands where the pot is already pretty big by the river but we are not committed yet. But you are right that it shouldn't always be the case. Thin value is a bit of a weakness of my game I am working on it.

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Thinker_145

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I'm seeing this more and more from people jamming rivers with say two pair A2 or even trip 2's ... It's just sick how people play but if he's got it you have to thank him for letting you fold :)


..........................

DO you analyse your play off on tracker? Perhaps you make these mistakes often after a long session? See if there is a pattern and you could take a break before this moment in time where you play perfect poker or quit for the day?? I know there is nothing set in stone but even make notes of how many hands you play before a bad error like this happens...

Just food for thought anyway :)

Unfortunately I didn't fold and he showed 77. I was disgusted out of my mind and stopped playing for the night because I could foresee a spewing spree incoming. I should be happy though that now I have the discipline to get up when I am just not feeling good.

You bring in a good point but I don't think there is actually a fatigue pattern to making mistakes for me. I make most mistakes when getting an endless spree of playable hands and not getting enough time to think about the big situations so I have now gone back from 6 to 4 tables and I am liking it. 6 just gets so stressful you can't even check your phone.

I just had my greatest session ever at 50NL so I am well over this disaster of a hand. :)

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
Aces2w1n

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Unfortunately I didn't fold and he showed 77. I was disgusted out of my mind and stopped playing for the night because I could foresee a spewing spree incoming. I should be happy though that now I have the discipline to get up when I am just not feeling good.

You bring in a good point but I don't think there is actually a fatigue pattern to making mistakes for me. I make most mistakes when getting an endless spree of playable hands and not getting enough time to think about the big situations so I have now gone back from 6 to 4 tables and I am liking it. 6 just gets so stressful you can't even check your phone.

I just had my greatest session ever at 50NL so I am well over this disaster of a hand. :)

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk


Perhaps get in the pattern of using the time bank button? :) .. I never use to do it but noticed a big difference of taking the pressure off as well.

Also i found when i won a lot i'd be opening a lil bit wider than normal as well and old patterns would happen... The good thing is the habbit creates bigger upswings so now i can turn it off when things aren't going my way.

I've also removed certain times of the day i play now because of added pressure, say the wife comes home or i know she will be home within a certain period. I now know that effects my play so i don't play within that hr period where she will be home. Just another form of distraction.
 
Thinker_145

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On the site I play there is no time bank button its automatic. Unfortunately pre flop if you are not the blind then you will be folded without using the time bank. Pee breaks would become so much easier to manage if I could activate it for pre flop as well.

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