$50 NLHE 6-max: River bluff on Draw heavy board Vs Lagg

Yoshimiii

Yoshimiii

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Total posts
1,058
Chips
0
25nl, don't know why title says 50nl -_-

Hand sample: 47 28/28/3.3 Villain seems decent enough.

Here is a useful previous hand against same villain:

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (3 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (BB) ($25)
Button ($10)
SB ($61.84)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J
club.gif
, 9
club.gif

1 fold, SB bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) J
heart.gif
, K
spade.gif
, 10
diamond.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25

Turn: ($4) 8
heart.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $2.75, Hero calls $2.75

River: ($9.50) 9
diamond.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $9.50 | Rake: $0.43

Results below:
SB had Q
diamond.gif
, 4
spade.gif
(straight, King high).
Hero didn't show J
club.gif
, 9
club.gif
(nothing).
Outcome: SB won $9.07

Raising river okay? I was trying to Represent 6/8 here, I don't see villain having a 6 in his hand, 6/8 is about the only hand I put him on that would call a raise on flop and connect with the straight. I honestly didn't know what villain had when he was betting river apart from turning his hand into a bluff (as when we raise flop he probably puts us on Top pair or better) or the 6/8 straight. Also hardly anyone at these stakes raises river as a bluff.

River bluff:
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (BB) ($25)
UTG ($8.80)
MP ($29.60)
Button ($26.16)
SB ($66.61)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10
club.gif
, J
spade.gif

3 folds, SB bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) 9
club.gif
, 3
heart.gif
, 7
spade.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $1, Hero raises to $2.50, SB calls $1.50

Turn: ($6.50) 4
club.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($6.50) 5
diamond.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $3.50, Hero raises to $9.75 Villain ....
 
Last edited:
R

rw11687

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 21, 2012
Total posts
312
Chips
0
I would be mildly concerned that they are holding 67s or something of the like. His river bet is hard to discern, but I would think he has something. Not quite sure they would bluff into you after you re-raised him on the flop.

Not sure what to think of the river raise - on one hand I like it - if he has a pair he is likely folding. But this is a scary board to be bluffing on, given he called a re-raise on the flop OOP. If he had a piece of the flop, he could have very easily improved his hand.

My guess is he re-raised all in and you were forced to fold.
 
Deco

Deco

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2009
Total posts
2,544
Chips
0
I float the flop. You've 10 cards that can improve your hand on the turn and this board is too dry to rep much with a raise.

The river raise we can rep 6x far better than villain but what puts me off is that most 25nl regs are neither turning former made hands in to a bluff or value betting super thin on 4straight boards.

Regardless of the last hand I'm expecting a 6 or good set. I'm not confident he will fold the latter especially as you've slready been caught bluffing the flop.
 
Yoshimiii

Yoshimiii

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Total posts
1,058
Chips
0
I float the flop. You've 10 cards that can improve your hand on the turn and this board is too dry to rep much with a raise.

The river raise we can rep 6x far better than villain but what puts me off is that most 25nl regs are neither turning former made hands in to a bluff or value betting super thin on 4straight boards.

Regardless of the last hand I'm expecting a 6 or good set. I'm not confident he will fold the latter especially as you've slready been caught bluffing the flop.

When did I ever get caught bluffing the flop? Also seen as it's a dry board I would have thought it's alot better to raise it as he will cbet this board 100% of the time with junk and there are hardly no draws for him to continue with or for me to represent, therefore looking like I have an over-pair/TP/set. Also I didn't want to float seen as he was aggressive as he would have fired turn probably and I would be in a tough spot.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Chips
0
Aggression on turn-no aggression on turn-aggression on river is a line people NEVER fold to, regardless of the runout.

In context of the actual hand, the only hand you're likely playing this way is 6/8, but that usually folds preflop, doesn't always raise the flop, and sometimes bets the turn. It's one hand. It's very unlikely.

When you raise that flop you're repping sets, gutshots, oesds, and maybe like A9/K9. When you flat that flop, you rep the exact same range plus some other hands. You can bluff raise overcard turns. You can bluff raise a 9 or a 7. You can bet blank turns when checked to.

Floating just works way better on a dry board texture like this; it falls in line much nicer with your range distribution. A good general rule is: against tags, bluff raise more on wet boards and float more on dry boards, and vs fish bluff raise dry flops like these more, and tend not to on wet boards.
 
Yoshimiii

Yoshimiii

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Total posts
1,058
Chips
0
Aggression on turn-no aggression on turn-aggression on river is a line people NEVER fold to, regardless of the runout.

In context of the actual hand, the only hand you're likely playing this way is 6/8, but that usually folds preflop, doesn't always raise the flop, and sometimes bets the turn. It's one hand. It's very unlikely.

When you raise that flop you're repping sets, gutshots, oesds, and maybe like A9/K9. When you flat that flop, you rep the exact same range plus some other hands. You can bluff raise overcard turns. You can bluff raise a 9 or a 7. You can bet blank turns when checked to.

Floating just works way better on a dry board texture like this; it falls in line much nicer with your range distribution. A good general rule is: against tags, bluff raise more on wet boards and float more on dry boards, and vs fish bluff raise dry flops like these more, and tend not to on wet boards.

Ok thanks for explaining, a float does seem better now.
 
Deco

Deco

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2009
Total posts
2,544
Chips
0
When did I ever get caught bluffing the flop?

What hands would you raise for value then check back the turn with? Without a significant scare card on the turn this line is almost always a bluff.

Also seen as it's a dry board I would have thought it's alot better to raise it as he will cbet this board 100% of the time with junk and there are hardly no draws for him to continue with or for me to represent, therefore looking like I have an over-pair/TP/set. Also I didn't want to float seen as he was aggressive as he would have fired turn probably and I would be in a tough spot.

Low cards he's unlikely to barrel every k, q, 8, j, or ten gives us a straight 8 out to a straight or a pair. This hand plays very well against heavy turn aggression.
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
Chuck covered this well; I would never raise this flop with this hand because you just don't wanna get 3-bet. Good overcards with a gutshot is just too much equity to give up; good rule of thumb is to not raise if you will throw up in your mouth when you get reraised. I.E. if you raise the flop with K7 it's no biggie if you have to give up. Giving up 4-10 outs sucks big time.
 
Top