$50 NLHE 6-max: Reg war interesting hand facing all in with overpair on river

pokerstars Hand #207875596736: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50 USD) - 2020/01/09 23:15:59 ET
Table 'Kurhah' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: CallYourMommy ($61.20 in chips)(solid LAG)
Seat 2: Jgreenwolf18 ($63.09 in chips)
Seat 3: Horhay100 ($72.16 in chips)
Seat 4: Migs3655 ($50 in chips)
Seat 5: Toot_the_horn ($131.34 in chips)
Seat 6: PABulldogges ($23.75 in chips)
PABulldogges: posts small blind $0.25
CallYourMommy: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Jgreenwolf18 [Kc Ks]
Jgreenwolf18: raises $1 to $1.50
Horhay100: calls $1.50
Migs3655: folds
Toot_the_horn: folds
PABulldogges: folds
CallYourMommy: calls $1
*** FLOP *** [7d Tc 4h]
CallYourMommy: checks
Jgreenwolf18: bets $2.26
Horhay100: calls $2.26
CallYourMommy: raises $7.74 to $10
Jgreenwolf18: calls $7.74
Horhay100: folds
*** TURN *** [7d Tc 4h] [Qh]
CallYourMommy: bets $18.50
Jgreenwolf18: calls $18.50
*** RIVER *** [7d Tc 4h Qh] [7h]
CallYourMommy: bets $31.20 and is all-in
Jgreenwolf18: calls $31.20
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CallYourMommy: shows [8h 6h] (a flush, Queen high)
Jgreenwolf18: shows [Kc Ks] (two pair, Kings and Sevens)
CallYourMommy collected $123.91 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $126.41 | Rake $2.50
Board [7d Tc 4h Qh 7h]
Seat 1: CallYourMommy (big blind) showed [8h 6h] and won ($123.91) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 2: Jgreenwolf18 showed [Kc Ks] and lost with two pair, Kings and Sevens
Seat 3: Horhay100 folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Migs3655 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Toot_the_horn (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: PABulldogges (small blind) folded before Flop

Backdoor flushes are hard to see. I assume you know this guy well enough to know he could have air/Tx type hands in his range? If so, seems standard.

That's pretty nasty. He flopped a double gutter and turned the flush draw to go with it. I don't think there's any way he's ever folding after getting to the turn. Maybe we can 3 bet flop here since we expect him to be x/r 56 and 89 along with 86 and perhaps JT+. Most times I think the money just gets in here when all the straights miss and backdoor flush comes in. Sucks when they get there.

I think I'm 3 bet shoving the flop there. Other than sets, you're ahead of everything else there, and as there are no combo draws, you're ahead of all the draws too. Get it in ahead, stack the Sklansky bucks, and move on. Unlucky hand, though.

I think the decision needs to be made on the flop because this is shaping up to get big. I expect a a range of sets and straight draws, and maybe a few over pairs. I might ship there if opponent is a known tilter or crazy gambler. Vs a tighter or solid guy I tend to just fold and risk a small error. Vs unknown u just gotta make a read, but I'd still lean towards folding. I'm never, ever calling though.

I really like how you played this preflop and on the flop. I think we should be raising the turn here. You probably have the best hand with the overpair and you can force your opponent to put the money in bad.

jordanbillie said:

I really like how you played this preflop and on the flop. I think we should be raising the turn here. You probably have the best hand with the overpair and you can force your opponent to put the money in bad.

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Agree we should be jamming turn as we are still ahead of the combo draw and if he misses we probably wont be able to get any value on the river.

jordanbillie said:

I really like how you played this preflop and on the flop. I think we should be raising the turn here. You probably have the best hand with the overpair and you can force your opponent to put the money in bad.

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I disagree, as long as we think this villain is aggro and he's going to be shoving rivers with his air/2nd pair type hands (which we better since we called the river bet). If we raise the turn we give him the chance to fold. Unless we know he's not the type to fold any piece or draw, I prefer flatting/bluff-catching the river.

Turn raise

jordanbillie said:

I really like how you played this preflop and on the flop. I think we should be raising the turn here. You probably have the best hand with the overpair and you can force your opponent to put the money in bad.

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I like this logic and perhaps he does call off with OE when I jam. My only concern with this line is taking away his bluffing lines. I feel like if I raise the turn I let my opp play perfect and may not get the money in if he is running a large bluff. You may be right and I like your logic. Honestly unsure.

WVHillbilly said:

I disagree, as long as we think this villain is aggro and he's going to be shoving rivers with his air/2nd pair type hands (which we better since we called the river bet). If we raise the turn we give him the chance to fold. Unless we know he's not the type to fold any piece or draw, I prefer flatting/bluff-catching the river.

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This was my logic as well. I feel like raising allows opp to play perfectly and for example if he had 68s of spades or some sort I let him get away instead of bluffing it off on the river.

WVHillbilly said:

I disagree, as long as we think this villain is aggro and he's going to be shoving rivers with his air/2nd pair type hands (which we better since we called the river bet). If we raise the turn we give him the chance to fold. Unless we know he's not the type to fold any piece or draw, I prefer flatting/bluff-catching the river.

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I see this line working well, if the read on the villain is strong. Good perspective on this hand, thank you!

jgreenman18 said:

I like this logic and perhaps he does call off with OE when I jam. My only concern with this line is taking away his bluffing lines. I feel like if I raise the turn I let my opp play perfect and may not get the money in if he is running a large bluff. You may be right and I like your logic. Honestly unsure.

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This means you titled your thread appropriately, as this is an interesting hand. I feel like this might be a spot where it's difficult to approximate which is more likely for the villain to do: spew on the turn with any draw or spew on the river as a bluff. I like the different perspectives we are getting on this discussion .

I think it's close as well and it depends on the V but when he x/r not only the PFR but also the caller on the flop then pots the turn, in my experience even solid LAGs like their hand. I don't think a turn raise runs into much air at all. If V donk led flop and we were passively calling down I would agree that raising is bad on the turn. Or if V used a smaller turn sizing I probably also flat. But after V puts in half his stack OOP against the PFR I don't see much folding going on.

This is against me. If you know how I play, your line is optimal. Argument could be made for raising flop, as played river is prob close between call and fold.

Wouldn’t over analyze it. My c/r is probably wider than most and just got good barreling card on turn. That’s why I don’t like raising flop as much as calling.

Well played see you on the streets

Callyourmommy said:

This is against me. If you know how I play, your line is optimal. Argument could be made for raising flop, as played river is prob close between call and fold.

Wouldn’t over analyze it. My c/r is probably wider than most and just got good barreling card on turn. That’s why I don’t like raising flop as much as calling.

Well played see you on the streets

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Lol. This is why you use a converter.

Welcome to CC. So how much air/lesser pairs do you have in your range on the river?

I think, you need to fold this hand on either the turn or river. Its a single raised pot, and you are a bit deep. So just as a pure default, if you stack off an overpair, you are generally paying off to much. Yes he is probably capable of check-raising some draws, as in fact he did, but he might not bluff all his missed draws on the river, and you have better hands than this to call him down with.

At these stakes and on this site, probably not much. Really trying to win this hand on turn, bluff frequency decreases each street. Once most people call this turn they’re not usually folding river unless it’s a busted draw that improved on turn. On turn most people are folding 90% of their range