Originally Posted by Cheecho
I know this table. I am a fish myself, but I hope I have come far enough to call myself a Pirhana Ax suited with only one limper in front is not a fold at this table. Often a raise will simply steal blinds. At the very least, it will increase my equity by limiting the number seeing the flop (which is what happened here). That said, it can/does lead to the situation I am posting about.
Having thought some about it here's how I would see it now. Pre-flop debate is valid, but I am interested in the post-flop decision making given that I raised.
With a few days to think about it, I agree with JChoop Fold>> 3bet>>> call.
Obviously, I know what happened, but trying to be objective, I think that the raise puts his range at A8, A3, 88, 33 (two pair or a set, but probs not AA given his pre-flop call and not 3bet); maybe Ax and trying to push me off, maybe air. Trouble is, I am only ahead of air, and the bottom end of Ax (not including A3). Call is stupid, b/c given stack sizes, at this point it's all going in one way or another, so go big now, or go home. The question can be boiled down to - "am I willing to shove my stack with top pair weak kicker?" Reasonable analysis??
Ok so you admit you're not a strong player but you want to put yourself in a difficult/losing situation? I can see doing this if you we're deeper but you're short and OOP, just fold. I know you want comments for post flop but you have to understand that usually difficult spots happen because you made mistakes on previous streets making the current situation a bit irrelevant. If you really want my opinion though, I'd say fold flop>>>>>>>>>>>>>call>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>3bet.
Also lets think about his range. What raises this flop? AJ+, A8, sets. We can discount AA/AK since he probably raises those pre though. This looks like his range is kind of polarized I.e. he either has hands that beat you or straight up bluffs. Now what's more logical, a guy who you described as 'loose/passive' raising a really dry flop with air or a hand in his range that beats you? Obviously the answer is to fold. But let's say we want to 3bet, what does that accomplish? Well it turns our hand into a bluff against a range that never folds and the only part of his range that it will fold out is so small that it's worth giving up. This is why id rather call before I'd 3bet
Originally Posted by jchoop
ye if you dont wanna give him credit just yet, you 3b small (min is fine) so you know where you are in the hand. if he comes over the top, you fold. if he calls, you check/fold to everything except a 1BB turn bet lol
Is this a level? Betting/raising for information is already bad but now you want 3bet/fold when we're so short just to 'know where you are in the hand'? That's pretty terrible imo.
Originally Posted by hackmeplz
Dear god please don't fold pre. Limping is fine if you don't want to raise we have a hand that plays really well multiway in a pot that will likely be multiway. As played pretty easy flop call. Turn?
Uh. What exactly is it about our hand that makes it play well in multiway pots? Is it our ace with a shitty kicker or do you just wet yourself anytime you get something soooooooooted?
What makes a hand play well in multiway pots can be many things but the ones most people recognize are ones that have both straight(by connecting) and flush possibilities. This combined with overall hand strength, the right stack sizes/implied odds, and position make a hand play really well multiway. Lets see what we have:
[ ] connected
[ ] good hand strength
[ ] good implied odds
[ ] position
But I guess I'm just pulling shit out of my ass, how about you tell me why A7s plays well with multiple people, short stack sizes and being OOP.