$50 NLHE 6-max: K9s flops flush draw + second pair with action

$50 NL HE 6-max: K9s flops flush draw + second pair with action

I've only played 4 hands with the relevant opponent, so nothing to note about him thus far.

I'm quite certain I made at least one mistake in this hand, but I'll leave the floor open for comments on the entire hand and will post more specific thoughts later.

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($123.85)
SB ($143.75)
BB ($50)
UTG ($54.05)
MP ($59.35)
CO ($51.55)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9 , K
3 folds, Hero bets $1.50, 1 fold, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) Q , 5 , 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.50, BB raises to $8, Hero calls $5.50

Turn: ($19.25) J (2 players)
BB bets $12.50, Hero calls $12.50

River: ($44.25) Q (2 players)
BB bets $13.50, Hero calls $13.50

Total pot: $71.25 | Rake: $3

Umm, the converter messed this up - the turn was the Jc and the river was the Qd and there aren't two 9h in the deck - I'm not that passive!

I dislike strongly if the turn is Jc and River is Qd as said.

So the board is Qs 9h 5s Jc Qd and villain has C/Red us then bet bet

What are we hoping to beat at this point? JT got there (technically bc it beats our 9) Qs kill us and we have the flush draw. So unless we give villain the other flush draw that's busted or a complete airball on a c/r bet bet (unlikely at these stakes) we can't beat anything.

If we're going to get aggro, I'd 3 bet the flop easily to fold out tons of hands with equity. As played the river is an autofold readless

Agree with 3 bet flop, I also would have folded the turn instead of the river. He check/calls any 9, check/calls any king (plus KQ/KJ beats you and AK might 3bet PF, weaker kings are unlikely unless he has K9 too) and he check/calls or even more likely check/folds the flush card.

You have 14 outs max, only 8 of which are clean and even then you could be up against better flush draw (though unlikely) so we give you 11 outs, 3.5-1 at absolute best. You need to bet $13 and him call every time and not have you beat with a better hand to breakeven.

I think his bet on the turn isn't giving you sufficient odds unless he's a calling station in which case yea, call.

River is snap-fold.

yeah just keep on jamming the flop and you can either get money in with plenty of equity or if called you will almost always be able to see a free river should you wish.

as played, I almost want to say fold turn but regardless, definitely fold river.

I say you should have folded the turn... You were definitely beat and i dont think you were getting odds good enough to chase. But calling the turn isn't as bad as calling the river. Just fold, you know you're beat.

Those saying as played fold the turn I disagree. We need to call 12.50 to win a $31.75 pot, better than 2.5:1 on our money. We could be as high as 40% against a AQ type hand, which'd be a snap call, but more likely we have to discount some of our outs. a K can either improve him to a straight or a better two pair, so we'll discount a king as out. We could be chopping some Ts but they for sure are clean (villain has AK here never) and I'd assume 9 spades and two 9s are all clean most of the time also. We still get 11-14 outs which still gives us 30%+. Based on pot odds alone it's semi close (still a call though), but factor in important things such as position and implied odds, i think it's an easy call.

If ten drops we don't get paid anything, we split pot as most and you can't say villain never has AK because in poker you can never really say someone's never got something. So tens don't count as outs.

Not too sure I would be too impressed with Js as an out either. We have 9-11 outs only with Js not being clean and another 9 maybe giving us trips v's FH....not to mention the possibility of losing to an ace high flush eveni f we do fill up.....add the fact we probably don't get paid when we do hit and villain checks his lowly top pair to us on the river.

WossaPotOddz said:

If ten drops we don't get paid anything, we split pot as most and you can't say villain never has AK because in poker you can never really say someone's never got something. So tens don't count as outs.

Not too sure I would be too impressed with Js as an out either. We have 9-11 outs only with Js not being clean and another 9 maybe giving us trips v's FH....not to mention the possibility of losing to an ace high flush eveni f we do fill up.....add the fact we probably don't get paid when we do hit and villain checks his lowly top pair to us on the river.

Click to expand...

Ok sorry villain next to never has AK here. Tens have to count as outs because although we split some of the time (KQ uh.... i dunno what else with a K in his hand plays it like this???) it's essentially a nut draw for us and although we probably don't get paid we still win the pot.

We also have position. If an 8 drops and villain checks, its a great bluff opportunity. If a spade come we should be able to get some kind of value out of a villain at stakes this low. If a 9 comes we should definitely get paid something.

We can agree to disagree, but I don't think it's even close

Zybomb said:

but I don't think it's even close

Click to expand...

Really?

In any case yes we will have to disagree

WossaPotOddz said:

Really?

In any case yes we will have to disagree

Click to expand...

In the case of pot odds alone yes it's fairly close. But I think once you factor some implied odds and positional advantage it makes it an easy call

Apologies for being so slow getting back to this but moving house will do that to you.

I'm surprised that most of the discussion has been about the turn seeing as to me - aside perhaps from preflop - that was the most straightforward part of the hand and I don't really see the need to talk about it as I can summarise my thoughts with "What Zybomb said".

The flop, with hindsight especially, is really bad. Assume that we're going to take the line of calling the flop raise and then call-calling turn-river (which wasn't my plan at the outset of the hand, of course, which is why I say with hindsight), there's basically no reason for us to not just go crazy on the flop and at least almost guarantee we're getting money in with a fair amount of equity, or ideally getting a fold and going away happy.

River is a fold - everything but a bluff beats us, stuff like JT got there in terms of beating our hand at least, although I think JT is a little too marginal for most people to bet the river with. My thoughts at the time were "His bet sizing is weird - he's likely to be bluffing", which is clearly a horrifically basic and contrived way of thinking.

More than one player played this hand horribly though, seeing as villain had K9 of diamonds and we bizarrely split the pot. Any thoughts on villain's play given his holding? I don't really tend to bother with appraisal of the quality of my opponents play, preferring of course just to use statistics and patterns as a basis for reads rather than littering my notes with hundreds of "HE GOOD" or "HE BAD" etchings, but given that we both had similar hands (I say similar seeing as we flopped a flush draw and he didn't), this would be an opportune moment for an edition of "Who butchered the hand the most?"