$50 NLHE 6-max: How many Streets must a man call down?

$50 NL HE 6-max: How many Streets must a man call down?

CO: 25/19/51 (175 hands)
Steal from CO= 38%

Full Tilt, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

MP: $27.75 (55.5 bb)
CO: $124.35 (248.7 bb)
Hero (BTN): $180.65 (361.3 bb)
SB: $119.15 (238.3 bb)
BB: $59 (118 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with Q:spade: K:spade:
MP folds, CO raises to $2, Hero calls $2, SB calls $1.75, BB folds

Flop: ($6.50) 8:diamond: K:club: 8:club: (3 players)
SB checks, CO bets $4.50, Hero calls $4.50, SB folds

Turn: ($15.50) 7:diamond: (2 players)
CO bets $14, Hero ???

the answer is blowing in the wind

How frequently is this guy barreling? Seems to be a pretty large turn bet, is that larger than normal for him?

If you think hes semibluffing a decent amount, you might be able to minraise the turn and check back the river, so you dont have to face a large river barrel.

Richyl2008 said:

the answer is blowing in the wind

How frequently is this guy barreling? Seems to be a pretty large turn bet, is that larger than normal for him?

If you think hes semibluffing a decent amount, you might be able to minraise the turn and check back the river, so you dont have to face a large river barrel.

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Sadly when mutlitabling its not often I've had the chance to make notes on someones bet sizing..
Nor have my street by street stats converged with a mere 175 hands.

Thats a nice line you have there I'll have to give it a whirl.
I'm tempted to call off all 3 streets as his aggression frequency is so high.

Oh and yes despite the stats not having converged yet the aggression is centred round the flop, his turn barrelling is rather high.

if u want some info on the turn, i suggest a min raise. If u get reraised u can dump ur hand at a moderate loss and if he smooth calls, hes probably gonna check the river in which case u can re-evaluate if u wanna check behind or value bet based in the river card.

Raising the turn could make him shove and you`ll have to fold rather than getting him to check the river so you can check behind, but if you flat call he might do just that.

sky4ever said:

Raising the turn could make him shove and you`ll have to fold rather than getting him to check the river so you can check behind, but if you flat call he might do just that.

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What hands do you think he will shove over 200bbs deep that we can beat?

Lol, I would never believe this guy.. Let him bluff at the pot.. raise him on the river.. or bet small if he checks you can also overbet the pot to let him call

since ur playing 250bbs deep u should be more willing to 3bet in that spot, also because u may have a dominated hand and you are in position so its a definate 3bet imo. played wrong preflop so its very hard to decide post flop. but clearly you wont want to lose 250bbs wşth kings up on a paired board so fold imo.

Skidmark said:

since ur playing 250bbs deep u should be more willing to 3bet in that spot, also because u may have a dominated hand and you are in position so its a definate 3bet imo. played wrong preflop so its very hard to decide post flop. but clearly you wont want to lose 250bbs wşth kings up on a paired board so fold imo.

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His fold to 3bet was very high and I expect it would be much higher when he is playing out of position.I don't see why my hand being dominated would make me want to 3bet

I think 3betting here is horrible.
It completely turns our hand into a bluff.

Deco said:

His fold to 3bet was very high and I expect it would be much higher when he is playing out of position.I don't see why my hand being dominated would make me want to 3bet

I think 3betting here is horrible.
It completely turns our hand into a bluff.

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against AQ or AK ur most likely losing 250bb and u would never now if you dont 3bet

Skidmark said:

against AQ or AK ur most likely losing 250bb and u would never now if you dont 3bet

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Why on earth would 3betting make it less likely I lose 250BBs.
tbh even if I did make the error of 3betting I wouldn't stack off for 250BBs, I certainly wouldn't without the 3bet.
Even if I called down all 3 streets its going to amount to less than 100BBs

do as u like then good luck. but you will get stuck in those kinds of situtations a lot imo

I've took some time to think about what you said.
It's still bullshit.

I can see 3betting being an option as a bluff but I don't think it's better than calling. As played I'm calling the turn. I have no idea why people would suggest minraising here when we have decent showdown value. Villain can be barreling with worse Ks, maybe smaller pairs, and FDs

Deco said:

Nor have my street by street stats converged with a mere 175 hands.

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Apologies for butting in. What does stats converging mean? When they have converged are you saying you have enough info on each street to make use of the stats when making a decision?

FWIW I think you played this fine. I'm calling this turn.

Humps said:

Apologies for butting in. What does stats converging mean? When they have converged are you saying you have enough info on each street to make use of the stats when making a decision?

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It means that you have a big enough hand sample for a certain stat to be reliable.

Some stats converge faster than others, for example VPIP and PFR converge very quickly but 'won $ at showdown' takes much longer (because most hands don't get to showdown)

i like minraising

Dont see how you can pass here, his range is still quite wide. I dont like min raising though, just a call for me.

Couple of things, but your pre-flop 3-betting range should really be widening against this guy as you get this deep in position. That should be fairly standard line. Secondly min raising the turn is a good way to get value with marginal hands and getting a cheaper showdown, but this isn't an ideal spot for it. I still don't mind min raising, but I'd prefer flatting if his river aggression is decent. Think we get slightly higher value from this line unless you think if you raise he A) won't 3-bet the turn, and b) will still bluff busted draws on the river.

Turn bet screams "I want value from your K or to push you off your FD to me". Assuming villain isn't regularly potting the turn, I'm expecting him to have You beat here most of the time. I like turn raise. I don't think you're getting bluff/semi bluff 3b here like ever and it will most certainly get you to SD cheaper

if he bluffs a lot - call and call a lot of rivers

if he is a straightforward reg he's drawing or has Kx, raise to freeze get value from draws and create the showdown price if he has AK, he could even call with KJ.

you have to put him on AK or AA here

alyoung said:

you have to put him on AK or AA here

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Why do you not think he can have air? He probably things heros range is something like KT-KQ, some PP, maybe some A high floats and same flush draws like ATcc Now against a range like that he's gonna barrel the flop witth probably 100% of his range Then ott the only combo hero has that crushes villain is 88, which is 1 combo so he's really not worried about that. So villain is going to be betting the turn really wide again, like all his Kx, all his FDs (he can easily have a BDFD as well) and some air as well since he'll realise majority of heros range is fairly weak and he can barrel him off it. You can't just put people on two hands in a spot where his range should be fairly wide. I doubt you need to think any deeper than that as well since it's 50nl. As for the hand I think I prefer calling turn and bluffcatching river

John A said:

Couple of things, but your pre-flop 3-betting range should really be widening against this guy as you get this deep in position.

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When I'm deep in position I 3bet just about everything under the sun, well more accurately put I 3bet almost anything suited. However I don't extend my value range as I'm not expecting villain to flat anymore than usual other than a few setmines. Would you say this is a wrong assumption?

Deco said:

When I'm deep in position I 3bet just about everything under the sun, well more accurately put I 3bet almost anything suited. However I don't extend my value range as I'm not expecting villain to flat anymore than usual other than a few setmines. Would you say this is a wrong assumption?

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Yes, I'd say it's an incorrect assumption because the point of 3-betting deep is precisely because your opponent will also call with a much wider and weaker range like suited connectors, etc... and it cuts down your SPR with "value hands", which I'm assuming you mean AJ, KQ type stuff.