$50 NLHE 6-max: examples of facing 3bets

So I've just moved up to 50nl and it fills like every other hand someone 3bets! This has always been the part of the game that I've struggled with(what to do when you get 3bet). I've posted general questions about it before in the cash thread and got some good responses but i think the best thing to do is to show some examples:

Hand 1
888 Poker - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BB: $103.02 (VPIP: 24.98, PFR: 19.98, 3Bet Preflop: 7.73, hands: 2,758)
UTG: $50.00 (VPIP: 17.32, PFR: 14.55, 3Bet Preflop: 8.16, Hands: 997)
MP: $50.75 (VPIP: 19.65, PFR: 15.07, 3Bet Preflop: 3.88, Hands: 754)
CO: $55.57 (VPIP: 20.21, PFR: 15.02, 3Bet Preflop: 5.83, Hands: 2,553)
Hero (BTN): $51.00
SB: $87.21 (VPIP: 31.82, PFR: 11.36, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 46)

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 7s 7h

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.31, fold, BB raises to $4.25, Hero?


Hand 2
888 Poker - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

CO: $50.00 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 20.83, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 28)
Hero (BTN): $50.25
SB: $58.17 (VPIP: 24.18, PFR: 20.88, 3Bet Preflop: 13.89, Hands: 98)
BB: $50.00 (VPIP: 24.98, PFR: 19.98, 3Bet Preflop: 7.73, Hands: 2,758)
UTG: $76.73 (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 22.35, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 89)
MP: $63.98 (VPIP: 26.55, PFR: 18.51, 3Bet Preflop: 6.31, Hands: 662)

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 9c Ac

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.31, SB raises to $4.43, fold, Hero?


Hand 3: (mislick with raise size here)
888 Poker - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BB: $54.39 (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 20.63, 3Bet Preflop: 9.52, Hands: 64)
CO: $50.00 (VPIP: 20.21, PFR: 15.02, 3Bet Preflop: 5.83, Hands: 2,553)
Hero (BTN): $51.50
SB: $59.66 (VPIP: 20.35, PFR: 19.47, 3Bet Preflop: 9.30, Hands: 116)

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has Qs Ts

fold, Hero raises to $1.50, SB raises to $5.00, fold, Hero?


Hand 5:
888 Poker - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: $121.67 (VPIP: 20.73, PFR: 16.06, 3Bet Preflop: 4.23, Hands: 201)
Hero (SB): $50.25
BB: $52.65 (VPIP: 29.30, PFR: 24.20, 3Bet Preflop: 19.40, Hands: 162)
CO: $50.00 (VPIP: 31.11, PFR: 24.44, 3Bet Preflop: 23.08, Hands: 47)

Hero posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has Kc Jh

fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $3.50, Hero?

Hand 6
same villain as the last hand
888 Poker - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

CO: $50.50 (VPIP: 24.98, PFR: 19.98, 3Bet Preflop: 7.73, Hands: 2,758)
BTN: $118.00 (VPIP: 20.73, PFR: 16.06, 3Bet Preflop: 4.23, Hands: 201)
Hero (SB): $86.29
BB: $101.25 (VPIP: 29.30, PFR: 24.20, 3Bet Preflop: 19.40, Hands: 162)
UTG: $51.14 (VPIP: 23.42, PFR: 19.57, 3Bet Preflop: 8.17, Hands: 657)
MP: $104.39 (VPIP: 31.11, PFR: 24.44, 3Bet Preflop: 23.08, Hands: 47)

Hero posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has As 6s

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $3.50, Hero?

I call pre

acky100 said:

I call pre

Click to expand...

Lol.

In all seriousness, read the pdf I linked to here. It's a good starting point.

I call all of the Btn hands you've shown and 4bet all the SB hands. (the 77 and A6s are kinda close though)
Something worth adding to your HUD is a pop-up that tells you how often villains 3bets opens from each position.

Glad to see you moved up, even tho now it will be hard for me to get those 30$ or something you are up against me you lucky bastard

From the couple of thousands of hand I played at 50nl on 888 I have noticed the same, very aggro game preflop, the game seems to be the same postflop pretty much.

I don't know what to says about all these preflop 3bets but there is something else I noticed about you since we played 30nl, you stay at the tables where there are no fish and you play vs the regs, and of course it will turn in to a piss war. Now you got it going good at 30nl but at 50nl you are new, possible playing a little scarred money like I do so I think you should be looking more in to your table selection. Play 1-2 tables if needed but make sure there are some fish on.

Just look at everyone's stats at those tables. I would be out of them all the next BB.

Cheers C9 I'll have a little look at that later

Deco yea when someone 3bets me i always click on the hud which gives a big popout of loads of information which includes 3bet by position so got that down, cheers

@Forsakenone, haha u should come join me at 50, i'm easy money. I remember u talking about going up to 50 not so long ago, u staying away though? And yea I see what your saying about me staying on tables too long when there are no fish there. That's something I'm working on actually since I noticed that you were always changing tables as soon as the fish left. There isn't always a great table selection at 50nl from the few sessions I've played so far but yea definitely trying to stay away from tables that are just full of regs. Btw I've transferred nearly all of my roll over to LuckyAce poker (new name is joejs520). It's the same network as 888 so u play on the same tables but atm they are giving rakeback at 10x the standard rate until u make $400 worth in rakeback. So it's definitely worth doing that

I am not playing 50nl because I am not rolled, but I am trying to get staked and if it doesn't work I will hopefully grind cause I only need like 300$ more to get to 50nl with a decent roll. Also I have a problem, I played there before and I am way below ev and now I am playing scared money.

I already have an Lucky Ace account, I will write them an email and see if they want to give me rakeback and if they do for surely I will move some money there, if not all.

also, add me on skype maybe we get to do a sweat session one day, I am forsakenone11 on skype.

Cool, yea I haven't got skype atm but I'll get it soon. Not really playing too much poker atm as I'm in the final year of my maths degree and got a bunch of exams to prepare for and coursework to do. So I'll sort it out after that.

Also do u use PT4? One thing I find incredibly annoying is when your writing notes on someone using Pokertracker or the notes u can write on 888, and a tables pops up and starts writing what you were writing in the chatbox of the table. Do u know if there is anyway round that?

c9h13no3 said:

Lol.

Click to expand...

Not sure whats lol, OP asked what to do when 3bet (obviously wanting to know what kind of hands are strong enough to call), given what we are told in each of the hand i can't think of anything better than calling pre in them all.

What are your stats?

Call, fold, 4-bet all kind of depend on flow and opponent. I don't fold to 3-bets very much so I at least call almost all of those in position. Calling also has a lot to do with how aggressive I think my opponent is. If I have a decent sample then I'm always looking at their turn aggression. If I have a hand that can flop some big draws, and they are aggressive I may call because I know they will fire a lot of turns and I can raise in a good amount of spots w/o committing myself.

If they are aggressive and I have a hand like 55-88, I may fold pre since I won't have a hand that will have a lot of improvement equity on the turn if I don't spike. So I'll be facing a double too often with a hand that I'll be committing too much with and won't improve often enough.

There's a lot more factors to consider, but those are a couple of important thinking algorithm starting points.

js520 said:

Cool, yea I haven't got skype atm but I'll get it soon. Not really playing too much poker atm as I'm in the final year of my maths degree and got a bunch of exams to prepare for and coursework to do. So I'll sort it out after that.

Also do u use PT4? One thing I find incredibly annoying is when your writing notes on someone using Pokertracker or the notes u can write on 888, and a tables pops up and starts writing what you were writing in the chatbox of the table. Do u know if there is anyway round that?

Click to expand...

I write the notes on 888, and it is very annoying when the tables pops up, and not only does it pop up when you have an action to make it also pops up when they deal your cards which is retarded. No way around it I am afraid.

and yes I use ptr4. maybe it would be easier to make the notes on ptr4, these will also work if you change sites on same network.

John A said:

If I have a hand that can flop some big draws, and they are aggressive I may call because I know they will fire a lot of turns and I can raise in a good amount of spots w/o committing myself.

Click to expand...

How are you not committing by raising turn in a 3bet pot? Even if they don't cbet flop (which they do at these stakes like 90%) and only bet turn for some reason the pot is still pretty big. I raise to 1$ 50c they 3b to 4$, check check flop, they barrel turn, 8 $ at least in pot, they bet 5$ I make it 13$? seems big to me unless I am willing to stack off at least a decent amount of time given that I am already in for 17$ at the bare absolute minimum by the turn.

I would love to hear 1-2 scenarios because I have the same problem, playing same stakes on same site as js520 plays, and I just fold to 3bets too much, and I 4bet bluff too often too, my 4b is like 8% now.

John A said:

What are your stats?

Click to expand...

My stats are around 22/18, was playing slightly looser on these tables though. My steal % on the btn is 54% and i fold to 3bets on the btn 76% so that's undoubtedly a leak. My overall fold to 3bet after raising % is 69% so I must be a 3bet target for them. I'm Trying to get this % down a bit

This topic interests a lot of us cause oop there is just 4bet or fold 100bb deep which is an absolut value. But ip is really hard to know when to flat. please share thoughts about stats ,turn aggression and postflop value of hands affecting decision of calling folding or 4betting. Looking forward!

Acky lets be serious here, post more than I call pre and EXPLAIN YOUR SHIT.

keep seeing this in a lot of posts of yours and its turning into spam, you know I like you dude but seeing Angleina Jolie telling people 'call' 'fold pre' is tilting as ****.

as one of the more experienced members you can post more than that.

i'm off uni atm, but will have a look later JS.. also convert them bastards if you can.

Cheers 9K. Acky does usually give very good explanations and has helped me a lot but I agree it is very annoying when u get a comment like 'fold' or whatever without any explanation.
Those hands comes from clicking on the 'copy to clipboard' button on PT4. Whenever I've tried converting to forum format it ****s it up, i'll try again...

888 Poker - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $103.02 (VPIP: 24.98, PFR: 19.98, 3Bet Preflop: 7.73, Hands: 2,758)
UTG: $50.00 (VPIP: 17.32, PFR: 14.55, 3Bet Preflop: 8.16, Hands: 997)
MP: $50.75 (VPIP: 19.65, PFR: 15.07, 3Bet Preflop: 3.88, Hands: 754)
CO: $55.57 (VPIP: 20.21, PFR: 15.02, 3Bet Preflop: 5.83, Hands: 2,553)
Hero (BTN): $51.00
SB: $87.21 (VPIP: 31.82, PFR: 11.36, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 46)

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 7:spade: 7:heart:

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.31, fold, BB raises to $4.25, Hero?

^ ah yea its working now

888 Poker - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $50.00 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 20.83, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 28)
Hero (BTN): $50.25
SB: $58.17 (VPIP: 24.18, PFR: 20.88, 3Bet Preflop: 13.89, Hands: 98)
BB: $50.00 (VPIP: 24.98, PFR: 19.98, 3Bet Preflop: 7.73, Hands: 2,758)
UTG: $76.73 (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 22.35, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 89)
MP: $63.98 (VPIP: 26.55, PFR: 18.51, 3Bet Preflop: 6.31, Hands: 662)

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 9:club: A:club:

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.31, SB raises to $4.43, fold, Hero?


888 Poker - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $54.39 (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 20.63, 3Bet Preflop: 9.52, Hands: 64)
CO: $50.00 (VPIP: 20.21, PFR: 15.02, 3Bet Preflop: 5.83, Hands: 2,553)
Hero (BTN): $51.50
SB: $59.66 (VPIP: 20.35, PFR: 19.47, 3Bet Preflop: 9.30, Hands: 116)

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has Q:spade: T:spade:

fold, Hero raises to $1.50, SB raises to $5.00, fold, Hero?,


888 Poker - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $121.67 (VPIP: 20.73, PFR: 16.06, 3Bet Preflop: 4.23, Hands: 201)
Hero (SB): $50.25
BB: $52.65 (VPIP: 29.30, PFR: 24.20, 3Bet Preflop: 19.40, Hands: 162)
CO: $50.00 (VPIP: 31.11, PFR: 24.44, 3Bet Preflop: 23.08, Hands: 47)

Hero posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has K:club: J:heart:

fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $3.50, Hero?


888 Poker - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $50.50 (VPIP: 24.98, PFR: 19.98, 3Bet Preflop: 7.73, Hands: 2,758)
BTN: $118.00 (VPIP: 20.73, PFR: 16.06, 3Bet Preflop: 4.23, Hands: 201)
Hero (SB): $86.29
BB: $101.25 (VPIP: 29.30, PFR: 24.20, 3Bet Preflop: 19.40, Hands: 162)
UTG: $51.14 (VPIP: 23.42, PFR: 19.57, 3Bet Preflop: 8.17, Hands: 657)
MP: $104.39 (VPIP: 31.11, PFR: 24.44, 3Bet Preflop: 23.08, Hands: 47)

Hero posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has A:spade: 6:spade:

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $3.50, Hero?


Do u know how i can put the villains stats in bold so its easy to see his stats?

Looks good, alot more readable.
I just bold their stats manually.

Deco said:

Looks good, alot more readable.
I just bold their stats manually.

Click to expand...

Yea i tried doing that by putting at the start and end of what i wanted to be bold but it didn't work. Is that what u do?

Just highlight what you want to bold then click the B button above the forum reply box.

oh yea, how did i not see that, i'll do that in future

OMGITSOVER9K said:

Acky lets be serious here, post more than I call pre and EXPLAIN YOUR SHIT.

keep seeing this in a lot of posts of yours and its turning into spam, you know I like you dude but seeing Angleina Jolie telling people 'call' 'fold pre' is tilting as ****.

as one of the more experienced members you can post more than that.

i'm off uni atm, but will have a look later JS.. also convert them bastards if you can.

Click to expand...

Seriously wtf?

OP posted some hands giving some basic stats and noone had replied

I call pre in them all obviously means i think they're too strong to fold yet not strong enough to 4bet for value, there is absolutely nothing else i can say with what was given, this is just an internet forum and whilst i try to help people every now and again, i still have a decent hourly playing poker that i would like to keep. Really think saying all i do is say fold pre etc is way out of line when my posts in HA are usually pretty in-depth and usually involve me going out of my way modelling hands in software i've bought, ok im done.

Your explanation for not explaining yourself is not detailed enough for me. I demand you explain yourself!