$50 NL, KK OOP, flop fold ?

tenbob

tenbob

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Can I attempt to call down light here ? Would you lead this flop ?

pokerstars Game #9944304196: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/05/16 - 14:28:48 (ET)
Table 'Cremona' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Monkey567 ($50.45 in chips)
Seat 2: Szu_KK ($28.10 in chips)
Seat 3: Marcolino84 ($14.70 in chips)
Seat 4: jhart1358 ($47.50 in chips)
Seat 5: mind4mind ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 6: tenbob ($56.65 in chips)
Seat 7: Kayooo ($45.35 in chips)
Seat 8: bigjockknew ($49.45 in chips)
Seat 9: dunp341 ($34.50 in chips)
Marcolino84: posts small blind $0.25
jhart1358: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tenbob [Kd Ks]
mind4mind: folds
tenbob: raises $1.50 to $2
Kayooo: calls $2
bigjockknew: folds
dunp341: folds
Monkey567: calls $2
Szu_KK: folds
Marcolino84: folds
jhart1358: folds
*** FLOP *** [Ah Tc 3d]
tenbob: checks
Kayooo: bets $3
Monkey567: folds
tenbob: ?? (Folding too weak ? )
 
J

joeeagles

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Too weak? Not in my book. It depends on player but if he's solid I fold this every time, since I'm not going to hope he has a weak A and I can get him to fold it by reraising.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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You're either WA or WB, so I don't think you lead the flop.

It's going to cost you this plus a turn bet plus maybe a river bet to find out whether you are ahead or behind; in that case maybe repop now, fold to reraise and fold to future bets if called.


My 2 cents
 
titans4ever

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Pot after flop is 6.75.

He bets under 1/2 the pot. This can be anything from a probe bet to a bluff. A call here is too weak and you gain no information for the turn. You call and now the pot is $12.75. He may fire out a bet of around 6 if he is consistent on betting 1/2 the pot.

If you are going to call, why not reraise him $5 here and make it $8. This way you know he has an A or better if he calls. Your reraise here is less than calling his 1/2 pot bet you think he will make on the turn. If you get called, now you have the information you need to know to lay it down if he fires out again. He may check to you and you can also check to try and catch the K on the river or fire out again and try to scare him off.

I personally lay this down most times. Two people calling your raise. I would expect at least one of them to have an A. One even fired out a bet so I would lay this down unless you have a good read on how they play.
 
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tenbob

tenbob

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If I raise and I get called, what information have i got ? Im still out of position on the turn, and I have to check-flold costing me another $8.
 
ChuckTs

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Well this is again a classic WA/WB, and we've sucked in either a smaller pair to bet (or a bluff), or an actual ace.

What are your reads on villain? I think it is read-dependent a little bit, but I could go either way.
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Villian has being playing a fairly standard, hasnt really stepped out of line. Just had a c-bet snapped off, thats the only read.
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

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If I raise and I get called, what information have i got ? Im still out of position on the turn, and I have to check-flold costing me another $8.

That is why I said I lay this down most of the time.

I am just saying that flat calling here will get you no information. Are you planning on calling his bet on the turn? If your answer is no, then why call the flop bet. You either check/call this to the river or fold here and now and save your money for a better situation.
 
tenbob

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I considered a float, but I was relatively new to the table, so i had no idea if it would work. As for the WA/WB examples weve seen in the past, the main difference here, is that we are out of position. Being in postion here would make a massive difference to the way i play the hand.

I folded.
 
J

joeeagles

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Originally posted by Tenbob
I considered a float,

I agree on position here forcing you to fold w/o options. What is a float?
 
Y

young hova

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don't let the ace on the flop scare you out of at least making a continuation bet especially if you know you can't reraise the bet being out of position

all in all, In this spot it depends on what type of image I am trying to achieve at this table, tight -- i'll fold, aggressive I'm throwing a checkraise somewhere, even calling down gives you a certain image, but this is dangerous sometimes because you dont know if he knows he should play it safe with a new player or not so your left to figure out how competent a player he is.

I think you should check-raise though, just because you have kings doesn't mean he'll put you on them, check-raise indicates strength (especially raising early position) and if he has anything like aj below he might start reconsidering his hand thinking you may have him outkicked or slow played a flopped set, knowing that your a new player and he might have to call another bet on the turn.
 
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