$50 NL. AA in the BB, bet sizing the flop.

Dirk has been a bit of a calling station, no reads as of yet on ibdavid


pokerstars Game #10170791810: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/05/29 - 17:56:14 (ET)
Table 'Hale-Bopp IV' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Dirk H. ($33.90 in chips)
Seat 2: ibdavide ($31.20 in chips)
Seat 3: tenbob ($98.70 in chips)
Seat 4: can_dollars ($35.10 in chips)
Seat 5: paynenola1 ($32.55 in chips)
Seat 6: vluff ($51.35 in chips)
Seat 7: war wouns ($71 in chips)
Seat 9: dbl_straddle ($50.75 in chips)
tenbob: posts small blind $0.25
can_dollars: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tenbob [Ac Ad]
paynenola1: folds
MadMedic4 leaves the table
vluff: folds
war wouns: folds
dbl_straddle: folds
Dirk H.: raises $2 to $2.50
ibdavide: calls $2.50
tenbob: raises $4.50 to $7
can_dollars: folds
Dirk H.: calls $4.50
hanky3000 joins the table at seat #8
ibdavide: calls $4.50
*** FLOP *** [Kc 3s Qc]
tenbob:????

Make a pot sized bet. There are many reasons why at least one of your opponents would call. A pair of kings, queens and a flush draw. Let them pay if they are trying to outdraw you.

umm

guy is shortstacked has I think $26 left after calling preflop raise. I would bet 1/2 of his stack ready to call the push.

reason being I want to commit myself and him to this pot. If you bet pot size he might not call because it will be like 2/3 of his stack but 1/2 he might and then put him all in on turn regardless of what comes out.

t1riel said:

Make a pot sized bet. There are many reasons why at least one of your opponents would call. A pair of kings, queens and a flush draw. Let them pay if they are trying to outdraw you.

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I agree you can't give good drawing odds, its a pretty big bet though ($21), and if you look at their remaining stacks (~$25) it's the equivalent of going all-in, so we need to think ahead before we do that. The board has a flush draw, kind of an improbable straight draw (could they have JT?), and 2 face cards which could give a set to someone or even 2 pair, since you have 2 aces 1 player could be holding KQ, and called your reraise because odds weren't bad to call (for David, it was $4.50 more in a $17 pot).

A feeler bet (~$7) doesn't make much sense because of the draws, who will call not only because of pot odds, but also for pot size, and if they both call you are basically in the dark and I'm not sure you'd have FE (you can figure that out better than me TB, pot would be $42 and their remaining stacks ~$18)). So, if you're going to bet it can't be less than $15, which makes you committed to a shove of either one or both.

I think the best option is to check and see what happens, mostly because I really don't like this hand right now in relation to that board. It looks like one of those heartbreakers ready to happen where you build the pot and someone else takes it. I know the check is very weak, but you look stuck here with the size of their stacks (with this board their small stacks is not necessarily a bad thing, if they had your stack size you'd HAVE to bet the pot and possibly fold to a shove).

I'd go with a check and see what painful decision awaits after.

stormswa said:

guy is shortstacked has I think $26 left after calling preflop raise. I would bet 1/2 of his stack ready to call the push.

reason being I want to commit myself and him to this pot. If you bet pot size he might not call because it will be like 2/3 of his stack but 1/2 he might and then put him all in on turn regardless of what comes out.

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Saw your post after putting mine up. I'm afraid TB is behind already. Perhaps its just me being too fearful. I see you think he's ahead. So, if you're going to play this thinking you're ahead your 1/2 stack bet strategy sounds really perfect, then all-in on the turn whatever comes. I'm fine with this, actually I like it because the draws worry me the least here.

I'm just scared someone is ahead here and its not TB. Maybe I should buy a dog.

well

joeeagles said:

Saw your post after putting mine up. I'm afraid TB is behind already. Perhaps its just me being too fearful. I see you think he's ahead. So, if you're going to play this thinking you're ahead your 1/2 stack bet strategy sounds really perfect, then all-in on the turn whatever comes. I'm fine with this, actually I like it because the draws worry me the least here.

I'm just scared someone is ahead here and its not TB. Maybe I should buy a dog.

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with as shortstacked as he is it is very doubtful we will be folding this though. If we bet 1/2 guys chip stack it gives him a chance to just push in on us with a pair. If we just push all in I think we will lose value and if he is drawing then by betting 1/2 he might push in on his draw or just call and then just put rest in on turn.

if he was deeper stacked our line would be totally different and we would want to make some sort of bet to gain information but at this point and his stack any bet we make to gain information is going to commit us so might as well give him the chance to put it in for us.

With $98, 2 opponents with $30 ish and $21 in the pot, i'm already decided - i'm playing this to the end and i want a call / raise from at least one of my opponents. I'd bet $12 here and call if raised or push on turn if called.

robwhufc said:

With $98, 2 opponents with $30 ish and $21 in the pot, i'm already decided - i'm playing this to the end and i want a call / raise from at least one of my opponents. I'd bet $12 here and call if raised or push on turn if called.

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Well Rob, the more I think about it and the more I think you and Storm are right. With their remaining stack sizes (~$25), and the current size of the pot (~$22), there is no getting away from this no matter what. I don't like this flop, and I think it sucks the way this hand went, but if you're scared (like me) just get a dog because you can't fold this anymore. Monies have to go in without looking back and that's it.

Since we're doing just that, I like the line you both suggest of betting half their stack on the flop. It still makes any draw, if there is one, unprofitable, because they're getting less than 3 to 1 and little implied odds. If they shove back on a draw, odds are still not right (I believe), unless 1 of villains has JcTc (which is not very probable).

It's tough to say whether you are ahead or not at this point with the texture of this flop. I think It's probably more probable for someone to have a set of 3's then a set of K's or Q's at this point (although I don't think any are very likely) with the way the preflop betting went down but two pair is a real possibility for one of the villians, and so is TPTK.

I know there is no way that I get away from this though with the my stack size in relation to theirs and the pot. I probably lead out with a bet of 12-15 and expect to be calling a push by at least one, maybe both of them.

ok

pokernut said:

It's tough to say whether you are ahead or not at this point with the texture of this flop. I think It's probably more probable for someone to have a set of 3's then a set of K's or Q's at this point (although I don't think any are very likely) with the way the preflop betting went down but two pair is a real possibility for one of the villians, and so is TPTK.

I know there is no way that I get away from this though with the my stack size in relation to theirs and the pot. I probably lead out with a bet of 12-15 and expect to be calling a push by at least one, maybe both of them.

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didnt notice it was 3 way on flop, that dosent change our line because they are both shortstacked. This makes betting 1/2 their stacks even better because we should get played back by at least one of them. Only thing we do not want to see is a made set, anything else we can deal with, even 2 pair we have outs.

this should be a pretty simple hand to play, we should not be put to any decisions at all during this hand. The hand pretty much plays itself with little thinkin on our part.

It was an interesting hand, their stack sizes meant somewhat tricky desicions. If I bet now the only hand im scared of is KQ and I have outs. Betting small leaves the potential of turn scare cards either scaring me off, or scaring them off. I somewhat thought of betting 1/2 the pot, then I figured if they are calling that much then they will call for all the pot.

*** FLOP *** [Kc 3s Qc]
tenbob: bets $27
Dirk H.: calls $26.90 and is all-in
ibdavide: folds
*** TURN *** [Kc 3s Qc] [6h]
*** RIVER *** [Kc 3s Qc 6h] [4s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
tenbob: shows [Ac Ad] (a pair of Aces)
Dirk H.: mucks hand
tenbob collected $72.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $75.30 | Rake $3
Board [Kc 3s Qc 6h 4s]
Seat 1: Dirk H. mucked [Jd Jc]
Seat 2: ibdavide (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: tenbob (small blind) showed [Ac Ad] and won ($72.30) with a pair of Aces

I don't understand his call with JJ, especially with that flop.


But you did say he was a calling station.

against a calling station i think we can open up or bet size, but normally i bet about $12-17 into this pot.

I agree with Joose on this one

More afraid of turn scare cards for him than me tbh. Table conditions were correct for this bet. This is one thing that annoys me online, on a live tabe id have much more time to think.

My thought process= KQ fine. Draw, fine, AK/AQ/Underpair will look me up.

NineLions said:

I don't understand his call with JJ, especially with that flop.


But you did say he was a calling station.

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thats what you see from people buying in short!

nh by the way.

Yeah there would no point for your opponent to be calling this unless he thinks your bluffing with a drawing hand like J-10 or even A-J. Nice win!

TB, I kind of lost track of this hand. I think its fine the way you played it, if you're behind so be it you can no longer get away from this with their stack sizes.

This hand is very interesting but the size of their stacks made it an easy decision for you. Just curious though, lets say this is $100max instead of 50, and lets say they both have stacks as big as yours, do you lead out and how much? What do you do if you lead out and one of them shoves back?

$100MAX=$50MAX=$25MAX Same decision for me, its a matter of the amount of Big Blinds that both guys are sitting on, not really the amount.

As regards if they were both as deep as me, dunno really. If they are both sitting on 200+ BB's then i can bet out in the range of 2/3 of the pot, and slow down if im called. I still attempt to call down light if possible against one or both oppents, but its very read dependant and based on how big they raise me on the flop and how big their bets are on the turn.

tenbob said:

$100MAX=$50MAX=$25MAX Same decision for me, its a matter of the amount of Big Blinds that both guys are sitting on, not really the amount.

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Yeah that was what I meant.

What you say makes sense it is read dependant, so I guess we really can't speculate on this hand any longer. I asked the question because, even if it could be worse (like 3 spades or hearts or even more coordinated like KQJ), its not a really friendly flop for aces going in 3-way pot after they both called your reraise and you're first to act. Plus, so many different things can happen, like both can smooth call your flop bet or 1 of them can reraise it, also what the turn card is etc.

I asked mostly because if I had the aces and they were all deep stacked I think I'd start to hate my hand somewhat. Leading out with a 2/3 pot bet, as you say, I think has to be done anyway, like it or not, and then take it from there. It makes sense and more than that can't be said.