$.50/1 FLHE Full Ring: Problems w/ AKo, top pair on flop

$.50/1 FL HE Full Ring: Problems w/ AKo, top pair on flop

Hi gang. This is my first posts to this forum for help with strategy w/ Low Limit Hold'em, and I'm aiming to post regularly going forward. I'm a newbie to CardsChat and somewhat new to online poker too. Still playing at low & micro limits for now.

Anyhow, here's a situation that I know I should be winning more often but am not. This is one of many hands like it where I seem to get beat on the river:

Full Tilt Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with ,
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 checks, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls

Flop: (10.4 SB) , , (5 players)
Hero bets, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls

Turn: (9.2 BB) (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Button raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls

River: (17.2 BB) (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

MP1 shows: ,

Total pot: 19.2 BB

So... What am I doing wrong here? Help!

raise, raise, raise, raise more and when it happens, it was a bad beat. idiots who would call you down with a backdoor draw to anything should be your main source of money.

Look who won the hand, not the button who was reraising but the guy in MP1 who was flatting the whole way, and if he was wrong to do so, it wasn't by much. You missed 3 opportunities to 3 bet him out of the pot and in each case you succeeded merely in building a bigger more callable pot.

Limit is a different animal than NL. In NL more often then not you bet because you have or think you have the best hand. You can control the number of viable opponents to some degree by raising enough to make any drawing hands unprofitable. Usually a 1/2 pot to 3/4 pot raise is enough. In FL you're bets rarely have enough punch to make it a huge mistake for SO with a decent draw to at least call. So in FL it is often correct to raise or RR even when you fear you may be running behind. When the button raised PF if you had RR'd you would have made it 4 bets to go instead of 2.

I can't guarantee that either MP1 or MP2 would have folded, but I do know that it would have been less correct for them to call. In all likelyhood you would have shaken at least one of them. Maybe the guy who won.

Great reply, gang. Thanks! I know I def missed the opportunity PF to raise, which was just a mistake on my part, but the table (as is often the case with low-stakes) had a bunch of callers & at least one maniac, so I was hesitant to keep raising if it was was less likely to push people out. Alas, this is the frustrating thing about playing with novices who will just call & raise without any real strategy in mind.

low limit FLHE is valuetown for hands like this. I put in my first 800 hands of .50/1 flhe today and with AK I jammed preflop and I jammed all the way to the river when I paired up (barring certain exceptions, above not being one of them) Although I played 6max (which was often down to 4 and 5 handed), I think raising for value pf and flop are standard. gotta be a little more careful when the bet rises on the turn, so I don't blame you, at least you bet

Does anyone else like bet/calling this river?

I may be way off base out in shorthanded land, btw

When you have an equity advantage in the hand, you WANT people to call because it means they are giving money to you. You are making money in FL by a.) getting people with worse hands to call or b.) getting people with better hands to fold. Long term, you will be making money from these people that call down. You bet and raise because they WILL NOT fold.

That being said, you made a huge error by not 3 betting the flop or turn. While this is a very dry flop, anyone with a pair here (not pocket pair) has odds to call because the pot is so big. Also, if you are going to call the raise from the button, you do so with the intention of check raising the turn, not lead out again on the turn. You should only be leading out if you are the last one to bet/raise on the previous street.

In this hand, I like a cap preflop, 3 bet the flop, and lead out the turn line. If you get capped on the flop, I would lead out the turn and if you still get raised, I would slow down and go into calling mode. You have a huge hand. Keep betting/raising for value.

Emperor IX said:

Does anyone else like bet/calling this river

Click to expand...

Why are we bet/calling the river when we called the turn raise? If you have a maniac read (which button very well could be because they showed major aggression on a very dry flop and then folded to one bet meaning they are either a maniac or has a huge case of MUBSY thinking) I can see a check raise the turn, lead the river and call one more line but as played, with the backdoor heard draw coming in, there is no reason to bet out here.

WurlyQ said:

Why are we bet/calling the river when we called the turn raise? If you have a maniac read (which button very well could be because they showed major aggression on a very dry flop and then folded to one bet meaning they are either a maniac or has a huge case of MUBSY thinking) I can see a check raise the turn, lead the river and call one more line but as played, with the backdoor heard draw coming in, there is no reason to bet out here.

Click to expand...

I just noticed that there were 3 players in river, so nm the bet/calling line (two players who may have had fd vs. one)

To hopefully redeem myself: If we WERE heads up I think he could just as easily be trying to squeeze value with lots of worse aces and we're really only afraid of A8/AT and maybe 88 here.

As played though I concede to your thoughts, I'm still new to this game lol



Also, wtf converter?

Turn: (9.2 BB) (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, 1 fold,Button raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls

River: (17.2 BB) (3 players)

A raiser and 3 callers=3 players?

Emperor IX said:

I just noticed that there were 3 players in river, so nm the bet/calling line (two players who may have had fd vs. one)

To hopefully redeem myself: If we WERE heads up I think he could just as easily be trying to squeeze value with lots of worse aces and we're really only afraid of A8/AT and maybe 88 here.

As played though I concede to your thoughts, I'm still new to this game lol



Also, wtf converter?

Turn: (9.2 BB) (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, 1 fold,Button raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls

River: (17.2 BB) (3 players)

A raiser and 3 callers=3 players?

Click to expand...

I don't know what the "MP2 calls" on the turn is. Everything else seems normal.

My question to you is, we just called the turn. What has changed on the river to warrant us leading out the river. The river is technically a bad card for us. If they were free showdown raising us on the turn (with Ahxh), they got there.

If we want to squeeze more value out of worse aces, we 3 bet the turn and then can bet/call the river. This would also be my preferred line in this hand. We lose only to AA and 88 (if they preflop raised with 22 or 55, life just sucks). In general, there is no point in doing a stop and go when the board doesn't change or becomes worse for our hand.

WurlyQ said:

If we want to squeeze more value out of worse aces, we 3 bet the turn and then can bet/call the river. This would also be my preferred line in this hand. We lose only to AA and 88 (if they preflop raised with 22 or 55, life just sucks). In general, there is no point in doing a stop and go when the board doesn't change or becomes worse for our hand.

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm confused about how this would be squeezing more value. If we did 3bet the turn, got called by the villain (who I'd be afraid maybe had at least Ax with a flush draw), why would I lead on the river when a heart fell? At this point wouldn't I be afraid of the flush -- which I was?

For this hand at least, I was even tempted to fold the river since the winner came to life and I figured he was in fact a call station and finally made his hand. I think it was a case of falling in love with my A pair w/ top kicker.

rowhousepd said:

Maybe I'm confused about how this would be squeezing more value. If we did 3bet the turn, got called by the villain (who I'd be afraid maybe had at least Ax with a flush draw), why would I lead on the river when a heart fell? At this point wouldn't I be afraid of the flush -- which I was?

For this hand at least, I was even tempted to fold the river since the winner came to life and I figured he was in fact a call station and finally made his hand. I think it was a case of falling in love with my A pair w/ top kicker.

Click to expand...

MP comes alive at the end. I am referencing the situation in which the button has Ax because button is the one who is raising every street. If button had Ahxh, we are indeed out of luck.

In regards to the river play, we lose a ton of value by checking the river whenever a draw comes in. Draws come in a lot by the river but it may not necessarily be the one villain is holding. Granted in this hand, the flop is very dry meaning there weren't any conceivable draws other than the runner runner backdoor draw. When people hit runner runner draws, I generally pay off because it happens so infrequently and is hard to read.

Also, never fold the river for one bet in a huge pot with a decent holding. Making expert folds is not the way to play limit. We are getting more than 18:1 on the river bet. That means if we are faced with this situation 19 times, we only need to win once to break even. People do goofy enough things that you will win more than that.

WurlyQ said:

Also, never fold the river for one bet in a huge pot with a decent holding. Making expert folds is not the way to play limit. We are getting more than 18:1 on the river bet. That means if we are faced with this situation 19 times, we only need to win once to break even. People do goofy enough things that you will win more than that.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I totally get that general principle (thank god I'm not that new), but I'm also finding that one of my big leaks is giving away extra bets on the turn & especially the river hoping to win with great pot odds -- and probably a little bit just wanting to a peak at what hand my calling station or maniac opponent stayed in with. I'm learnin'.