$5 NLO 6-max: PF line with non-suited rundown

jbbb

jbbb

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Looking back I think I like 4betting to iso the sb. Just seeing if flatting to play a multiway pot might be better though.

pokerstars Pot-Limit Omaha, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

SB ($8.85)
Hero (BB) ($12.48)
UTG ($7.22)
MP ($8.36)
CO ($5.60)
Button ($5.32)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8
heart.gif
, J
spade.gif
, 10
diamond.gif
, 9
club.gif

UTG calls $0.05, MP calls $0.05, 2 folds, SB bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.20, 1 fold, MP calls $0.20
 
dj11

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In any version of Omaha I flat this. Tho I might be persuaded to raise in the Hi version. If it wasn't rainbow, I would be more inclined to push. 2 suited and its an easy push.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I'd 3-bet.
+1 to 3-betting here. Flatting is pretty criminal. 3-betting allows you the possibility of getting heads up, in position, with a monster hand. There's really not a lot of arguments for flatting in this spot, especially with a hand that can still flop dominated straight draws.
 
dj11

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This being NLO rather than PLO, I prefer to exert some pot control where I can. Granted this hand is full of ohms (potential) but it is gonna be really easy to short circuit. I vote for pot control.......

If we 3 or 4 bet here, we are likely to get in a situation where all our chips are at stake, and an overpair takes the pot.

In PLO, I would be more inclined to 3 or 4 bet, but certainly not these min raises. In NLO the difference is obvious, are you gonna call a shove?
 
Dactal13

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anytime I play any hand in any nl game I always consider the possibility of someone shoving on me, so therefore I dont bet any hand that i wouldnt be willing to shove or call a shove with.....thats just my opinion tho!!!
 
dj11

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anytime I play any hand in any nl game I always consider the possibility of someone shoving on me, so therefore I dont bet any hand that i wouldnt be willing to shove or call a shove with.....thats just my opinion tho!!!

OK, so what would you do with this hand?
 
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baudib1

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First off, not sure that this is NL rather than PLO.

anytime I play any hand in any nl game I always consider the possibility of someone shoving on me, so therefore I dont bet any hand that i wouldnt be willing to shove or call a shove with.....thats just my opinion tho!!!

This is just clearly the wrong way to play poker. There are many things to consider that you haven't mentioned, such as stack sizes, positions, dead money, wide ranges of players in the pot, image, not to mention equity (pot equity and fold equity) that go beyond the two cards in front of your face.

We're in position and we want to make pots as big as possible when we have a great hand in position that is going to play very well vs. a likely range of overpairs.
 
dj11

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jbbb named the thread NLO, but the HH shows it to be PLO


bad jbbb.....:confused:
 
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BTW not having suits sorta makes me want to 3-bet this more to get HU. The last thing we want is to end up multiway with a hand we can't get away from but getting freerolled by multiple hands, when the flop comes 983 2-tone I'd want to be happy to get stacks in and not worry about someone having us crushed.
 
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You are so deep on SB you should be 3betting just about every time SB opens to iso and play inflated pots in position.

For me, any mid/high rundown is an easy 3b. Much better/easier/funner hand to play than unsuited AAxx in this spot.
 
jbbb

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FFS Sorry, it's PLO, not NL. I'm just used to putting 'no limit' in the box.
On 2x6 episode 2 V.Selbst says "6789ss players better MW so probably better to call OOP. [Assuming to make the pot MW]." Thinking about it, surely if we hit the flop we're going to flop big, if we miss it's a pretty easy fold. Surely we want a multiway pot as any flop we're happy getting it in HU we're probably happy getting it in MW too.
 
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you don't have 9876ss, which is definitely going to play better MW than this hand
you're in position on PFR
 
jbbb

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Surely single suited (to a 9/T high flush) is more important HU. If you get it all in on the flop 3-way i'm pretty sure one of villians will have a higher FD (probably nut) and so having flush outs will be worthless. HU however, he's less likely to have the flush draw and so flush outs to go with any possible straight or two-pair outs are essential.
 
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baudib1

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..

BTW not having suits sorta makes me want to 3-bet this more to get HU. The last thing we want is to end up multiway with a hand we can't get away from but getting freerolled by multiple hands, when the flop comes 983 2-tone I'd want to be happy to get stacks in and not worry about someone having us crushed.
 
jbbb

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^^I don't know what quoting that is meant to mean. It didn't address my question of having a single suited hand being better HU and less important MW.
If we flop a hand we want to go with, the flush re-draw will probably be good HU, whereas MW if we get all-in our flush outs are probably covered by one of the villians.
 
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baudib1

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Having suits is always going to be better but more important MW just like AQo is going to play better HU instead of MW in hold'em.

When we play MW it's pretty vital to get it in with dominating and freerolling draws instead of being dominated/freerolled and it's hard to do that with an offsuit hand.
 
tenbob

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So your more likely to flat a suited rundown hand here ? (reading thread w/interest)
 
jbbb

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So your more likely to flat a suited rundown hand here ? (reading thread w/interest)

Ahh I dunno. I'll watch some more vids later hopefully clear this up. FWIW I like 3betting a SS or DS rundown (probably stacking a DS rundown). But does having a SS rundown in a MW pot really make a difference if you're drawing to a 8 high flush. Not really imo. If you have a 8 high flush outs HU it's a lot more valuable.
 
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TBH as NoOne says we're pretty deep with the PFR, who is likely a clown and likely has a range he's going to play badly OOP. I'd be 3-betting a lot of stuff and probably flatting a range of big pairs and double-suited crap (like A3J8ds).

The important part you're missing about what Vanessa is saying is that she's talking about being OOP, which we're not.
 
dj11

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Caveat; I play more PLO ring than HE ring, and I do not consider myself all that competent at any ring game of any sort (except perhaps stud8). So my flatting notion is a tourney based consideration.

We have no original info about the table and player dynamics here, serious problem IMHO. I am still favoring flatting here as a measure of pot control. Omaha can get out of control very fast, and whenever I can exert some control on the pot, I do better than when I follow someone else's attempts to control things.

Again, I can hardly imagine a situation where I don't want to see a flop here, but there is a limit as to how much I want anything in poker holding the cards I hold at the time I hold them. In position here there are only really 2 options, flat it, or pot it. I could do either at any time, but feel much more comfortable flatting this.

What we don't know can kill us, and in this case a lack of player dynamics (reads) is hindering us. But if I can, I'm still flatting this. :D
 
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timemuffin

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I would raise this for sure. If it had 2 suited cards then I think it's a no brainer, but raising here is also prefered imo.

EDIT: just realised it's NLO, so I think flattening is definitely a good option here, but if it was me I'd probably still 3-bet because I wouldn't be able to resist :p
 
jbbb

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5PLO doesn't have reads. Everyone plays straightforward weak-tight fit or fold on the flop. The things is when we 3bet the SB there's a strong possibility UTG and UTG+1 are coming along too, hence being OOP.
 
dj11

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5PLO doesn't have reads. Everyone plays straightforward weak-tight fit or fold on the flop. The things is when we 3bet the SB there's a strong possibility UTG and UTG+1 are coming along too, hence being OOP.

No reads???? There are always reads, unless you just sat down and this is your first hand or orbit. They might be simple reads, like player x just played the last 4 hands, or player y hasn't played in 2 orbits. But they are all we have and would add something to the discussion.

However this is cheap Omaha, and I see your point about both coming along regardless of what you do, in which case flatting is the definite best answer. There will be no isolation happening here, both the villains made up their minds they want to see a flop. I reject the bloated pot notion in this case.

Not only that, but there is the notion of controlling the table dynamics, more doable in Omaha and definitely more doable in Omaha 6 max than in HE. Controlling the table dynamics will be mostly a matter of setting the tempo of the game, and the overall aggressiveness at the table. Flatting here helps control that aggressiveness factor. From a tourney POV this would be desirable, whereas listening to you ring guys, I get the feeling you would rather foster a wild west approach believing you have a much better post flop game.

I sort of hate bringing in any mention of tourney's here, being this is a ring game and all, but still, the tools of the game are similar enough.
 
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