$5 NLHE6-max: Foolish Instincts with a Flush Draw?

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TorreyB

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 32/8/3.5

Entered a multiway pot while in the BB to see what the flop brought. Everyone checked to the BTN which appeared to me to bet cautiously at the pot for 0.50. The BTN's turn check and previous flop bet I used to gauge whether or not I'd be safe for a large river bet.

Do you think it was foolish to continue on the way I did with the As and Ks still out there somewhere or would you have had the same instinct after the turn check?

poker stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
CO: $8.29
BTN: $2.50
SB: $5.89
Hero (BB): $6.60
UTG: $6.58
MP: $3.45
Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BB with 6
heart.gif
J
spade.gif

UTG raises to $0.20, 1 fold, CO calls $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.15
Flop: ($0.82) 9
spade.gif
2
spade.gif
7
spade.gif
(4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, BTN bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, UTG folds, CO folds
Turn: ($1.82) Q
spade.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks
River: ($1.82) J
diamond.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $1.10, BTN calls $1.10
 
rssurfer54

rssurfer54

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fold pre. everything else is fine.
 
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TorreyB

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My preflop requirements for the blinds are semi loose, but also depending on the hand I hold. With this weak of a hand, I would have dumped it for only two people in the pot, but with the BTN calling I figure it was a good price for a random crack at a decent pot. I might end up further adapting this style. My VPIP is mid to upper 20's usually, and the PFR not that far behind.
 
wrung24

wrung24

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I would also say that a fold preflop would have been the right thing to do, move on. I wouldn't feel comfortable playing that hand on the vast majority of the flops I'm going to see.

I'm not surely about the flop call either, you don't have the pot odds and you're not even drawing to the best flush, plus if the 4th spade hits and he doesn't have any, I don't think you're getting any more of his money, never know though, although he could call you down with a smaller spade
 
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TorreyB

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He ended up having TsTh. Is more profitable in the long run to use more math or play the player?

I would have prefered to been the last to act after villian's flop bet, but when you consider his AF is 3.5, he'd either bet higher with a As or Ks or maybe even a low bet to keep everyone in the pot or to have someone shove on him. Any spade that could potentially come out puts my hand strength at 80-88% depending on which one (says the hand evaluator in poker academy). *bangs head from thinking too much*
 
TheUndesirable

TheUndesirable

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fold the flop, even in a pot with several people in it, what kind of flop are you hoping for with J6, A jack high flop is dubious as you could easily be out-kicked, and a six high flop would likely get worse on later streets. On the flop he bets around 2/3 the pot, not a cautious bet but a standard one, and to make a call with only the bare jack of spades with two players to act behind you is very loose play. Fold preflop, but failing that, fold the the flop.
 
pokerman27

pokerman27

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Fold pre.

If you're gonna play J6 and hit your spade flush with the J then you have practically the best possible hand for your holding so yes you're gonna value the river after his turn check. You're not gonna be happy with it but then when are you ever gonna be happy with J6? To solve this we have to go back in time and not play garbage like this OOP imo...
 
rssurfer54

rssurfer54

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Fold pre.

If you're gonna play J6 and hit your spade flush with the J then you have practically the best possible hand for your holding so yes you're gonna value the river after his turn check. You're not gonna be happy with it but then when are you ever gonna be happy with J6? To solve this we have to go back in time and not play garbage like this OOP imo...

This was my thinking as well. I didnt explain so much though haha.
 
KardKlub

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if you check the turn you have to check the river. people aren't good enough to do this so make sure you are.

This way you allow him to bluff at it and call your raise. In the long run youll earn more money.

+ as stated fold pre. J6o lol
 
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baudib1

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Calling out of the blinds because of "lol pot odds" is bad, especially with utter trash.

Even if you have something playable, which J6o isn't, you're going to burn money a lot of times by chasing draws and you can't control the size of the pot. The other problem is, the more people who see the flop in a raised pot, the greater the chance that you'll flop a monster and get coolered. In a 4-way pot you'll rarely get stacks in good on a JJx flop, for instance.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Fold preflop, holy shit you're bad.

Seriously, you need to understand how monstrous a leak this is. Everything that happened post flop is so absolutely pointless to talk about because you're spewing like a sorority girl on a Saturday night pre flop.
 
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TorreyB

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One hand posted up on a forum isn't a spew. I post up hands that I think will get a lot of chatter, and usually take whatever new advice might be given to make my game even better. I did think there would be more math chatter when you factor everything in (after it's down to just me and the villian), but the advice has been great on these forums.

From this particular post I used KardKlub's advice on checking. Also tightened up a bit and moved the VPIP down to mid 20's.
 
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baudib1

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Just so you know your postflop play on this board is really bad as well.

You have to understand that your hand's value is infinitely weaker than if the flop had 2 spades and you had two spades in your hand. This is like maybe the one time out of 100 that you will get a crying call on the river with a worse hand after you bink your 8-outer. Calling the flop is almost as bad as calling preflop, and betting the river is worse.
 
pokerman27

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Fold preflop, holy shit you're bad.

Seriously, you need to understand how monstrous a leak this is. Everything that happened post flop is so absolutely pointless to talk about because you're spewing like a sorority girl on a Saturday night pre flop.

I hate these wishy washy responses. Say what you mean, man!
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

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I lol'd when you said you're "semi loose" calling from the blinds.

I'm failing to see how c9s post is wishy washy, seems clear cut to me
 
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TorreyB

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c9's advice is really good, although I lol'd at his contradicting hand history. I like any feedback, good or bad from my posts.
 
pokerman27

pokerman27

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I lol'd when you said you're "semi loose" calling from the blinds.

I'm failing to see how c9s post is wishy washy, seems clear cut to me

Irony clearly lost on you! :rolleyes:
 
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