$5 NLHE Full Ring: Is villian ever bluffing here?

$5 NL HE Full Ring: Is villian ever bluffing here?

Ok, yeah, it's 5nl rush. LOL, I'm starting to hate it. But this situation comes up in a lot of regular ring games as well and I just wanted some thoughts on this.

Villain is an unknown. I only have three hands on him and he's a 67/0/0.

My question is, is villain ever bluffing here? Is this a weird blocking bet for a split pot, maybe the low end of the straight? Could be the ultimate scare card to bet on like a missed flush draw, no? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Full Tilt - $0.05 NL RUSH - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $3.60
UTG+1: $5.48
MP: $7.56
MP+1: $4.57
Hero (LP): $9.82
CO: $8.71
BTN: $2.36
SB: $1.95
BB: $4.37

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Q:spade: A:spade:

fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.10, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.10, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.27, 2 players) T:diamond: J:diamond: Q:heart:
UTG+1 bets $0.15, Hero calls $0.15

Turn: ($0.57, 2 players) K:spade:
UTG+1 bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1.47, UTG+1 calls $1.17

River: ($3.51, 2 players) J:club:
UTG+1 bets $1.80, Hero ???

Shove? Or at least call. There is no point in playing anything if you're not willing to call/get it in with anything but the stone cold nuts

Shoving is the worst possible play. We are only getting called if we are beat, never getting called with worse.

TPC said:

Shoving is the worst possible play. We are only getting called if we are beat, never getting called with worse.

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lol do you really think that? That phrase sounds good, it is true in some situations but you're making it sound like a golden rule, true 100% of the times.

There is plenty of worse that can call you on that board. (trip J's, 2 pairs with a K, lower straight will all call) Especially because this is an unknown at 5NL, and because he is committed. Calling is safer sure, folding is burning money

ComplexPlaya said:

lol do you really think that? That phrase sounds good, it is true in some situations but you're making it sound like a golden rule, true 100% of the times.

There is plenty of worse that can call you on that board. (trip J's, 2 pairs with a K, lower straight will all call) Especially because this is an unknown at 5NL, and because he is committed. Calling is safer sure, folding is burning money

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Yeah, he's unknown to us, but we are also unknown to villain as well. I'm not saying 100% of the time. I'm saying in this situation with an unknown villain. We need to know villain is capable of calling us with less to make the shove worth while. We need a solid read on the villain go be able to do that. Otherwise we are just throwing money away.

You really think just a pair of J's is calling the raise on the turn?

2 pairs? The board is paired, so you are telling me a pair of Kings or a pair of Q's is calling a river shove? I seriously doubt it. Maybe KQ would call or the idiot end of the straight. I don't think we are missing much value if we never shove over villains bet on the river in this situation.

I don't see how you can do anything except call here.

TPC said:

Yeah, he's unknown to us, but we are also unknown to villain as well. I'm not saying 100% of the time. I'm saying in this situation with an unknown villain. We need to know villain is capable of calling us with less to make the shove worth while. We need a solid read on the villain go be able to do that. Otherwise we are just throwing money away.

You really think just a pair of J's is calling the raise on the turn?

2 pairs? The board is paired, so you are telling me a pair of Kings or a pair of Q's is calling a river shove? I seriously doubt it. Maybe KQ would call or the idiot end of the straight. I don't think we are missing much value if we never shove over villains bet on the river in this situation.

Click to expand...

This is 5NL. I realize you called and got beat, but stop being results oriented. If you fold to a random 5NL 'er whenever you have a good made hand and the board pairs it means you're playing way too nitty to make a profit.

As for calling with worse, it might not be the best idea to shove given his betting, but once people invest most of their stack in they surely won't fold worse.

This is a clear call. You're right in that shoving would be awful. It's a horrible board really but you have to call, getting decent odds and the guy's an unknown 5NL player. It's definitely not a fold without more information.