$5 NLHE Full Ring: Two pair facing river shove

Can I call the river here? I think the villain might also shove with AQ / KK+ but since hes on the button his range definitely has K9/AK/66. If I could play it again, I would have donked the turn.

I flatted because the villain had position and his fold to 3-bet stat was 50% so maybe I should have folded pre?

Plan on the flop was if we didnt improve, then I would shutdown to another barrel from the villain.

Villain: 13/12/4

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

BB ($5.32)
UTG ($2)
UTG+1 ($3.50)
MP1 ($5.05)
MP2 ($9.59)
CO ($1.67)
Villain (Button) ($7.28)
Hero (SB) ($5.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J , 10
5 folds, Villain bets $0.15, Hero calls $0.13, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.35) J , 6 , Q (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.75) 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

River: ($1.75) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $1, Villain raises to $6.43 (All-In), Hero...

youre never good when he does this on the river, he would never think about shoving AQ here and i dont think anyone but a terrible regular who would soon be bust would shove KK here+, so if we donk the river we gotta fold to a shove, i think id just check call the river and turn anyways, donk like donking anywhere in the hand tbh

I prefer a 3 bet pre, depending on his F3B stat. C/c the river. Fold as played.

youregoodmate said:

I prefer a 3 bet pre, depending on his F3B stat. C/c the river. Fold as played.

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Fold to 3bet stat was 50% thats why I just flat called. I think its either a flat or fold, dont you agree? If we 3-bet hes most likely just going to call because hes on the button and then we're going to have to play a big pot, OOP.

Also, agree with everything you and Acky said about just check-calling the whole time and trying to get to showdown as cheap as possible. But yes, as played fold makes the most sense. Hard to call when he jams the river and hes deep.

pocketehs said:

Fold to 3bet stat was 50% thats why I just flat called. I think its either a flat or fold, dont you agree? If we 3-bet hes most likely just going to call because hes on the button and then we're going to have to play a big pot, OOP.

Also, agree with everything you and Acky said about just check-calling the whole time and trying to get to showdown as cheap as possible. But yes, as played fold makes the most sense. Hard to call when he jams the river and hes deep.

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Sorry silly me, didnt see that you'd already put it. Depends on the hand sample then, I'd still be tempted to 3 bet or fold. Im not a big fan of JT oop. The thing is with JT we flop quite well often, meaning we can often barrel more than once and obv we get the FE of 3 betting and c-betting. This can just as easily be a fold pre for me.

Yeah as you played it c/cing the way down is best.

no way a 13/12s got a fold to 3bet of 50%.. how many hands was this over?

imo its still a 3bet, rivers a c/c.

pocketehs said:

Hard to call when he jams the river and hes deep.

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Effective stacks aren't deep.

Calling pre is OK, and I'm also with check/calling down.

When he ships over your donk on the river (unless he's bad as Acky says) you are not beating a value hand, and he's unlikely to be bluffing, so folding is probs best.

Also happy with calling pre

I would hope that I was able to fold on the river after he shoved, but I lose more money with two pair than anything else it seems like.

Did he have AK?

OMGITSOVER9K said:

no way a 13/12s got a fold to 3bet of 50%.. how many hands was this over?

imo its still a 3bet, rivers a c/c.

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Sorry I shouldve asked this a while ago. When I post a hand do I post the hand with the stats that they had at the current time when we were in the hand or what their stats looked like at the end of a session? I posted the information that I had on the villain at the current time because although the hand sample is small, is it not close enough to justify the reason not to 3bet? What I mean is that, I dont want to be playing a larger pot, OOP but with this plan I also agree with everyone in that I should have c/c the river.

During the time of the hand I had about 86 hands on the villain and they were running 13/12 with a 50% fold to 3bet over 112 hands. However after you posted this I found him in PT3 and he is now running 12/11 with a 75% fold to 3bet over 250+ hands. With his change in Ft3Bet, I would definitely raise to 0.5-0.55 preflop.

pocketehs said:

During the time of the hand I had about 86 hands on the villain and they were running 13/12 with a 50% fold to 3bet over 112 hands. However after you posted this I found him in PT3 and he is now running 12/11 with a 75% fold to 3bet over 250+ hands. With his change in Ft3Bet, I would definitely raise to 0.5-0.55 preflop.

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^ doesnt make sense. It was 86 hands at the time. Dont know where 112 came from.

how many times had he been 3bet though? it could've been 2 for all we know.

imo even with that fold to 3bet over a kinda smallish sample, I think the majority of regs are going to be raise folding OTB a lot here + its a 15/12 so he's going to play fit or fold on flops a lot etc.

still think a 3bets the way to go dude

OMGITSOVER9K said:

how many times had he been 3bet though? it could've been 2 for all we know.

imo even with that fold to 3bet over a kinda smallish sample, I think the majority of regs are going to be raise folding OTB a lot here + its a 15/12 so he's going to play fit or fold on flops a lot etc.

still think a 3bets the way to go dude

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Most likely was about 2 because his stat now is 9/12 for 75%

I see what you mean now OMG. I agree that its a 3bet too. Thanks man

bz54321 said:

I would hope that I was able to fold on the river after he shoved, but I lose more money with two pair than anything else it seems like.

Did he have AK?

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Nope he had AA and I called. Poor decision in the long-run after considering that the majority of the time when he jams the river hes going to have QQ/AK/K9 but at least I learned something and still got paid haha

Okay ya that was a crazy all-in on his part.

But with AA he would have called your 3-bet and prob would have shoved to a continuation bet on the flop (would you have gone all in on the flop?). I think you played it correctly and got lucky on the river-call to his all-in. Most players I think would have called or folded to your bet on the river. But its always fun to take from some one who is AA blinded.

I just 3bet pre here a lot of the time since players at these stakes fold way too much. The call is ok though. Don't like your river lead at all. As played it is a very easy fold imo against most players at the micros and a snap fold against this one.

oh yeah don't 3bet when he has AA, coz then he'll just 4bet and we'll lose all our money

dude, really?

OMGITSOVER9K said:

oh yeah don't 3bet when he has AA, coz then he'll just 4bet and we'll lose all our money

dude, really?

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What, you 3 bet when they have AA?.... Rookie!