$5 NLHE Full Ring: $ : Turn bluff - is this spew?

LD1977

LD1977

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SB ($4.07)
BB ($3.38)
UTG ($3.30)
MP1 ($8.97)
MP2 ($2.12)
CO ($0.73)
Hero (Button) ($5.68)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K
club.gif
, Q
spade.gif

4 folds, Hero bets $0.15, SB calls $0.13, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.35) 9
diamond.gif
, 3
spade.gif
, 7
club.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.35) A
heart.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $0.15, Hero raises to $0.45, 1 fold

Total pot: $0.65 | Rake: $0.03

SB is 33 / 12 / 1.8% 3bet / 6% 3bet vs. steal. 500 hands sample.
AF 2.2 (39%), donk bet 17% both flop and turn.

Notes:
- Plays FD passively
- Calls with QJo and plays TPGK passively postflop (small bets flop and river)
- 4bet = AA

I simply didn't buy his story and Ace is a scare card for him more than me (kicker issues).

- If he raises I fold of course.
- If he calls I give up anyway and chk or fold river unless the bet is microscopic, then I call for info.

1. Line check? Is this too spewy against this kind of player (yes I know it worked this time)?
 
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Yoshimiii

Yoshimiii

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Not spewy at all, I can show u hands i played today that are definitely spew lol. Anyway like u said I wouldn't bluff this player often, looks fishy unless u have a read. Also give up on river obviously.
 
LD1977

LD1977

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I can recognize my own clear spews (the "WTF was I thinking" kind :D), but these borderline situations are murky.

Basically he reps and likely actually has the Ace here, but his small bet sizing and generally frightened playstyle made me attempt to rep AK.

If he has 2 pairs he is not going anywhere, and obviously I can't be sure he 3bets AKo (small sample + low 3bet %) but every other hand has to be uncomfortable OOP.

Obviously I have like zero equity here (generally I like to semi bluff and not bluff outright).
 
John A

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It's not spew, but a better question I think is, is it the most profitable line? If you think he's weak or just stabbing and you can steal the pot, then it's more profitable to call, and then bet the river if checked to or raise the river.
 
LD1977

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Yeah but if I just call he might think I don't have the Ace or I have a weak one and then I am screwed.

He probably isn't really great at hand reading and lines analyzing and I thought I have to scare him immediately if this is gonna work at all. Also, river bluff costs more and probably has lower chance to succeed.

I am making lots of assumptions here so feel free to disagree, I really don't have that much experience with these kind of bluffs. Generally I bluff TAGs and nits if I can do it credibly and have actual equity somewhere (gutshot, a pair).
 
John A

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Yeah but if I just call he might think I don't have the Ace or I have a weak one and then I am screwed.

He probably isn't really great at hand reading and lines analyzing and I thought I have to scare him immediately if this is gonna work at all. Also, river bluff costs more and probably has lower chance to succeed.

I am making lots of assumptions here so feel free to disagree, I really don't have that much experience with these kind of bluffs. Generally I bluff TAGs and nits if I can do it credibly and have actual equity somewhere (gutshot, a pair).

So your opponent is going to fold a weak ace if you raise the turn, but they won't be able to put you on an ace if you check the flop and call the turn?

Yeah, I don't know what to tell you man. River bluffs are generally given more respect, and if your read is correct, then your opponent will give you even more info by the river. He'll likely slow down if he doesn't have anything, and you can make a small river bet and take it down, or he'll make the same weak bet and you can raise the river and take down more money.

Maybe this is too much for 5NL, I honestly don't know. But if you thought your opponent was weak, this is a much more profitable line in general.
 
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micromoi

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why u did not cbet, u just put yourself on a bad sitiuation u go bluffing he will never fold an ace.
just fold and move on it is a big risk for a so small reward.
 
LD1977

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The board misses my range so I decided to check and see the turn. People like check raising small boards if they hit them (this guy likely check calls) and I can rep any J+ on the turn.
 
Yoshimiii

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The board misses my range so I decided to check and see the turn. People like check raising small boards if they hit them (this guy likely check calls) and I can rep any J+ on the turn.

I'd still cbet it, dry board and he might not even think about ur range.
 
John A

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The board misses my range so I decided to check and see the turn. People like check raising small boards if they hit them (this guy likely check calls) and I can rep any J+ on the turn.

How does that board miss your range?
 
LD1977

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People put PFR on big cards usually. Ergo, cbets on small boards get zero respect and often get raised.
 
John A

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People put PFR on big cards usually. Ergo, cbets on small boards get zero respect and often get raised.

You raised on the button... You should c-bet the flop for value.
 
LD1977

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You lost me now :) you mean cbet as bluff? I can't cbet for value with air, no? Overcards are not really that hot on their own.
 
vinylspiros

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LD. think about it. what are you re-raising here? your line is horrible. If you had the ace why would you 3bet him ? in order to make him fold out worse? or to represent a set? He's donking into you and this is DONK BLUFF 101 ,esp at 5NL. if you want to represent the ace,you call here and bluff river.If you want it to look real. another good thing is that by flatting here you can also pick up a k on the turn and be good alot more of the times. 3 betting flop is only if u think ur ooponent has an overpair or TPTK and u have a set. Or if ur on some kind of draw.

This board is uber dry so your line isn't that great. (not that i havent done the same thing many many times).


IMO this is a fold.
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

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One more thing LD, dont be afraid to Cbet . ESP if u miss and the board is super dry. If your really bluffing the POT cbet is usually going to be the best way to pick it up. esp on such dry flops. Sure there are other ways to win it, but the way you chose is spewy.
 
Aces2w1n

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You lost me now :) you mean cbet as bluff? I can't cbet for value with air, no? Overcards are not really that hot on their own.


Perhaps he has hit the flop? Betting the flop so when you do hit the board you can make it easier to get your price for when you do hit on later streets.

Remember you've got air, but really if he has hit the flop how great is his hand here still?



Common strat is to c-bet and dbl barrel when scare cards hit the turn.
 
Yoshimiii

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You raised on the button... You should c-bet the flop for value.

I don't understand this either, OP has King high, how is this for value? which worse hands can call here?
 
vinylspiros

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I don't understand this either, OP has King high, how is this for value? which worse hands can call here?

it doesnt matter what cards we are holding. we are the preflop raisers(3 bettors) and the flop is all low cards so we must Cbet. chances of him missing the flop are huge so we can take it there and then. The C-bet isnt exactly value yet but we have outs+ fold equity.

It's wrong to not Cbet unless flop is super wet and there are more than 1 villains or unless we have the nuts and think villain is over aggro and will take stabs at it with air.
 
Yoshimiii

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it doesnt matter what cards we are holding. we are the preflop raisers(3 bettors) and the flop is all low cards so we must Cbet. chances of him missing the flop are huge so we can take it there and then. The C-bet isnt exactly value yet but we have outs+ fold equity.

It's wrong to not Cbet unless flop is super wet and there are more than 1 villains or unless we have the nuts and think villain is over aggro and will take stabs at it with air.

I know why you should c-bet the flop, I am just asking why John said it's for value when only better hands call..
 
Aleksei

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I don't understand this either, OP has King high, how is this for value? which worse hands can call here?
Something floating the flop I guess...? I'm as baffled as you are; that line seems looser than anything even I'd come up with. :p
 
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