$5 NLHE Full Ring: Tough call or fold?

$5 NL HE Full Ring: Tough call or fold?

HH isnt converting so F**K it. If u complain about it, f**k off bout it.

Villain has been limpin alot and he has shoved on the river once on a decent pot when every1 was passive.

pokerstars Game #37438089158: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2009/12/31 6:24:08 WET [2009/12/31 1:24:08 ET]
Table 'Philia V' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: basil80 ($2.20 in chips)
Seat 2: ETZinReno ($3 in chips)
Seat 3: Step@shka ($1.85 in chips)
Seat 4: ONA80 ($9.49 in chips)
Seat 5: MacBH ($6.97 in chips)
Seat 6: Ace10Suted ($4.01 in chips)
Seat 7: Raxxxxx ($5.08 in chips)
Seat 8: ukaliks ($5.38 in chips)
basil80: posts small blind $0.02
ETZinReno: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ukaliks [Jd Qd]
Step@shka: folds
ONA80: folds
MacBH: folds
Ace10Suted: folds
Raxxxxx: calls $0.05
ukaliks: raises $0.16 to $0.21
basil80: folds
ETZinReno: folds
Raxxxxx: calls $0.16
*** FLOP *** [9d Th 7s]
Raxxxxx: checks
ukaliks: bets $0.31
Raxxxxx: calls $0.31
*** TURN *** [9d Th 7s] [7h]
Raxxxxx: checks
ukaliks: checks
*** RIVER *** [9d Th 7s 7h] [Kh]
Raxxxxx: bets $4.56 and is all-in
ukaliks: ???

He's made this move once, he's doing it again. Is he strong, or is he jus stealing?
So annoying making a strong hand but not the nuts on a board like this..

Convert!!!

I don't think about it for more than a few seconds before I call and stack this idiot. Nothing that beats you makes sense other than the BD flush. Just call.

Villain never has flush here IMO. FH or better is made with KK, TT, 99, 77, K7, T7, 97. It obviously varies, but in a vaccum, I'd say KK, TT, 99, and usually 77 get raised PF, while K7 will be folded, and T7 or 97 might pop up in late position from LAG opponents. Tough opponents would usually c/r this flop, but we're playing 5NL, so that goes out the window, and a slowplay with two pair and a plan to c/r the turn could fit his pattern.

That said, he could be spewing with KJ, KT, K9, A9, weak trips, 88-66 maybe, etc... I think this probably makes up for the only situations I'm worried about, combined with your read of villain. Call the river shove.

I thought about it for a minute and decided villan either has a set or 2pair. Thought very rare he has a flush here but also thought it is possible since WVHillbillys tactic is to shove the river when u have flushes or FH here?

So I called and he showed Ah 8h. Dam..he made his flush and I payed him off.

Ah well. Still tho it's a hard situation by the river and it's too complex to put villan on a hand. It realy depends on ur mood if u wanna gamble or fold?

i see this "move" all the time at the lower limits, and yes sometimes it will be a huge bluff, but i find more often that not, the huge overbet all in when a bad card comes is usually a sign they hit it.. most do not have the mental capacity to be able to think " oh well that must be a bad card for my OP so ill bluff it" so its usually the nuts or close to it..

Yeh I dont think micro donks r capable or sticking there whole stack in on a bluff. U do get the maniac fish who will spew bluff the river, but he's rare. Most of the time if there shoving, they've probs got a decent hand...

Like I said it's a hard situation weather to call or fold but I decided to gamble only because im well rolled for NL5.

NL Holdem $0.05(BB)

basil80 ($2.20)
ETZinReno ($3)
Step@shka ($1.85)
ONA80 ($9.49)
MacBH ($6.97)
Ace10Suted ($4.01)
Raxxxxx ($5.08)
ukaliks ($5.38)

Dealt to ukaliks J:diamond: Q:diamond:
fold, fold, fold, fold, Raxxxxx calls $0.05, ukaliks raises $0.16 to $0.21, fold, fold, Raxxxxx calls $0.16

FLOP ($0.49) [9:diamond: T:heart: 7:spade:]
Raxxxxx checks, ukaliks bets $0.31, Raxxxxx calls $0.31

TURN ($1.11) [9:diamond: T:heart: 7:spade:] 7:heart:
Raxxxxx checks, ukaliks checks

RIVER ($1.11) [9:diamond: T:heart: 7:spade: 7:heart:] K:heart:
Raxxxxx bets $4.56 and is all-in
ukaliks???

Overbet shoves are almost always super-polarized in that villain always has a super strong hand or total air every time he makes this bet. If someone makes an overbet shove with a strong hand, he's basically never bluffing ever when he overbet shoves, and vice versa.

In my experience I haven't seen too many people overbet shoving with air, although these bets don't happen too terribly often, and they aren't a bet that is called with a very high % either.

I would expect to see a full house here most of the time, a flopped set that wanted you to bet for them. Then when you checked behind the turn, they just shoved hoping you'd call for whatever reason.

ukaliks said:

I thought about it for a minute and decided villan either has a set or 2pair. Thought very rare he has a flush here but also thought it is possible since WVHillbillys tactic is to shove the river when u have flushes or FH here?

So I called and he showed Ah 8h. Dam..he made his flush and I payed him off.

Ah well. Still tho it's a hard situation by the river and it's too complex to put villan on a hand. It realy depends on ur mood if u wanna gamble or fold?

Click to expand...

I'd likely never play a FH this way because I'd be betting the turn with any possible FH I could have but yeah, I probably make the same shove with the flush.

As to villains rarely shoving as bluffs I agree but bad players will overvalue enough weaker hands in these spots (7x, J8, K9, KT, possibly AK) that we're ahead of to make calling worthwhile. Plus who hits a BD flush???

WVHillbilly said:

Plus who hits a BD flush???

Click to expand...

lol, nice. So true though, you never expect that to be the hand. I thought the bet simply indicated villain wasn't afraid of the flush (generally due to having a better hand), not that the heart actually improved him.

BD flush?

ukaliks said:

BD flush?

Click to expand...

backdoor flush.

what happened the first time he did this? did he get called? what did he show down.

My gut says I fold this without knowing the answer to above. As said in an earlier post hand ranges for villian here are super polarized. He either has it or doesnt.

Without knowing more info about the previous hand then I cant really answer this.

Assumming villian shoved with air previously, I snap call fist pump as micro players generally dont even out their bluff : value overbet shove range, its either all bluffs or all value bets.

If he didnt shove air then fold obv.

If he wasnt called i just fold this as the board is just to wet for my liking and im a natural nit. But in all honesty you will find better spots against a fish than this. To often i fell he has 34s or some BS and we facepalm call.