$5 NLHE Full Ring: Top pair and flush draw OOP on flop... Too passive?

Took a low variance line on the flop due to 3 bet from CO.... Should I always be looking to get it in here despite being behind to good portion of his 3bet range?

First time I'd seen him 3 bet and the amount was small, think I must of been either tilting or suspicious tbf cause I'd normally try to get as much of my stack in as possible on the flop... got a bad feeling I butchered this hand


PokerStars - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (UTG): 100 BB
UTG+1: 138 BB (VPIP: 22.41, PFR: 17.24, 3Bet Preflop: 9.52, hands: 59)
MP: 124.6 BB (VPIP: 15.49, PFR: 7.04, 3Bet Preflop: 3.45, Hands: 72)
CO: 80 BB (VPIP: 14.81, PFR: 14.81, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 27)
BTN: 52.4 BB (VPIP: 22.06, PFR: 1.47, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 69)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 9.09, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
BB: 241.8 BB (VPIP: 13.85, PFR: 12.31, 3Bet Preflop: 6.45, Hands: 66)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:diamond: T:diamond:

Hero raises to 2.4 BB, fold, fold, CO raises to 6 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 3.6 BB

Flop: (13.4 BB, 2 players) 6:diamond: J:club: 2:diamond:

Hero checks, CO bets 8 BB, Hero calls 8 BB

Turn: (29.4 BB, 2 players) 2:spade:
Hero checks, CO bets 20 BB, Hero calls 20 BB

River: (69.4 BB, 2 players) A:spade:
Hero checks, CO bets 46 BB and is all-in, fold

CO wins 66.6 BB

I don't really like opening UTG with J-10s.

However, as played, 3-bet is so small, I think a call might be OK. However, you will be playing the hand OOP with a hand that can be troublesome post flop. I would probably just fold preflop.


However, once you see the flop, you can't really raise because only a better hand will call. I think as played the line you took is OK.


But I would definitely consider tightening up from UTG.


I am not that great at hand analysis, but I thought I would offer my input, because no one has replied yet.


Perhaps some more experienced members will chime in here.

This is close to the best flop you could hope for. TP and flush draw outs.

I think this would be a great spot to x/r the flop.

While the line you took IS low variance it is also probably -EV. Which means you will continue to lose money doing this.

What was your plan for this hand? It looks like you weren't exactly certain what to do on any street. I'm not trying to be rude, but really what was your plan? You need to make sure that you have some purpose in your call or your bet other than "I thought I had odds." This guy just fired 3 on this flop, I don't know if he had a pocket pair, an AK or an AQ but it was likely one of those.

Another consideration is that once the flush card hits, you are probably going to lose any action that you had. Once the flop hits you have a ton of outs EVEN if he ahead of you there. 2 J's, 3T's, 9 hearts, for a total of 15 outs. That is pretty solid. You have a ton of equity in this pot, and calling that bet on the flop is a mistake against his likely range of hands. If you don't raise that flop you are probably going to be losing all your action once if the wrong cards hit.

You have enough equity to put in a check raise on this flop and if he comes OTT with a shove you've probably still got enough to make a call anyway.

As someone else mentioned, don't open JTs from UTG. These suited hands are best played in LP because they can get you into lots of trouble post-flop. On the flop, I think you can go for a check-raise because of your hand equity. You may also get some information about your opponent's hand. Once you do hit, don't go crazy because your opponent might still be ahead.

As a general rule, don't play these in early position.

Thanks guys, sorry for taking ages to respond back

I normally don't open JT suited UTG but I will open up with mid - larger suited connectors from time to time from there just for balance..

As played I'm pretty sure I butchered it post and would normally be looking to try and get the money in OTF or at least commit myself for the turn. Like Ubercroz says, this is really what I'm hoping for in a flop and looking back I couldn't understand why I took this line when normally I'd be happy to play for stacks here against 2 overs or an overpair, which I agree were his most likely holdings. I put him on a strong range when he 3bet pre... I think I might have been passively tilting throughout the hand and the lack of balls actually makes me feel sick lol

And yeah, my decision making process through out the whole hand seems out of whack, biggest mistake (post) is flatting the flop i think. I considered a check raise but once I decided there to go for a low variance play I was pretty much lost and had no plan for any further street. BUTCHERED lmfao

Thanks again guys, much appreciated

seymourflopsws3 said:

I normally don't open JT suited UTG but I will open up with mid - larger suited connectors from time to time from there just for balance..

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It's 5nl. How often and how much do you think balancing your range actually matters?

Arjonius said:

It's 5nl. How often and how much do you think balancing your range actually matters?

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Probably not much, but I still want to get into good habits

seymourflopsws3 said:

Probably not much, but I still want to get into good habits

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I think you need to play the stakes you are in.

Balancing your range is not important at micro stakes. Your opponents are not thinking about your range much.

seymourflopsws3 said:

Probably not much, but I still want to get into good habits

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Is this more important than determining your opponents' actual styles and adapting your game as appropriately / advantageously as you can?

Making plays for the sake of making plays isn't a good habit. It's FPS.

I do agree with the play except the hero's preflop raise.

Since we are already there on the flop, I cant see any butchering at all.
Even if you cr, both of you will still stay after the turn.

People really saying to not open with J10s!? Wow. 100% open with J10s UTG, especially at 5NL. If you're not opening these hands in EP your VPIP is going to be so low that even the fish are going to realise you're a nit and give you no action, let alone competent players/ regs.

Why are we calling the 3 bet by someone we have no info on though? By all means open, but its a different story when facing a 3-bet UTG. This is the time to fold pre.

Its pretty much a dream flop for J10s and we shouldn't be checking to villain, we need to take back pot control after his 3-bet, even be prepared to come over the top if he shows aggression to us still.

I have no problem with the open. Its the calling of the 3bet I find very bad. I will open these hands at these stakes UTG (but!!!! I play 6 max, since it is 7 handed, ok for me as well). If the table is right, this is an opener all the way. On other tables, an insta fold. But, w/e, calling this OOP is never gonna be pleasent unless you flop a boner.

fletchdad said:

I have no problem with the open. Its the calling of the 3bet I find very bad.

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Yeah I agree with you mate, what's worse for me is when I call the 3 bet (mistake), even though his range is beating my top pair this is basically a flop I want to get it in on and gamble after making the mistake of calling.. Loads of outs and I've put JTs in my UTG range as its gone face up even when I miss my outs...

I should of got it in lol

seymourflopsws3 said:

I should of got it in lol

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Pre?? uhhhhhhh noooooooooooooooooooo

(I guess you got me here...

chapter 3 FTW.....

fletchdad said:

Pre?? uhhhhhhh nooooooooooooooooooo

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Yeah Bitter Bob style!

Nah mate OTF I should of c/r trying to get it in lol, Bob would be f**kin furious if he saw my ball less play here pmsl

seymourflopsws3 said:

Yeah Bitter Bob style!

Nah mate OTF I should of c/r trying to get it in lol, Bob would be f**kin furious if he saw my ball less play here pmsl

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I may be alone here, but I think trying to C/r and GII OTF might be a mistake. I have done the same on occasion. I usually only get called by better, and I don't improve.


I don't really like the position you are in preflop. You flopped a big draw with TP, but you still need to catch to win. All of this could have been avoided by folding preflop. However, the 3-bet was small, and tough to get away.


The hand was just a tricky spot in general, and I am still undecided on the entire thing.



There is really no point to this post. But I am trying to contribute my thoughts anyway.

Thanks for your thoughts Beanface, appreciated.. I'm never getting called by worse unless villains one of those never fold AK AQ on the flop guys tbf (and even then it could be AK/AQ diamonds).. still rekon I should of got it in though... now wheres my GA leaflet

akaRobbo said:

People really saying to not open with J10s!? Wow. 100% open with J10s UTG, especially at 5NL. If you're not opening these hands in EP your VPIP is going to be so low that even the fish are going to realise you're a nit and give you no action, let alone competent players/ regs.

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This is an overstatement. Even if you're not opening JTs in EP, you can still have an opening range of about 15% which is on the tight side for 6max, but hardly super-nitty. Plus many fish either won't realize much or won't react appropriately. And it's not as if all the regs are capable of exploiting you either.

Oh common you have to open JTs UTG in a 7 handed game. If its 9 handed then perhaps you can just limp but I am not folding JTs pre.

Oh and btw why are people saying that only better hands can call him? QQ-AA are not better they are equal hands in this spot. Only hand we are afraid of is JJ but its unlikely the CO 3-bet with that.

He could also have AKdd but again we are not behind that hand.

But this is a high variance style make no mistake about it.

Thinker_145 said:

Oh common you have to open JTs UTG in a 7 handed game. If its 9 handed then perhaps you can just limp but I am not folding JTs pre.

Oh and btw why are people saying that only better hands can call him? QQ-AA are not better they are equal hands in this spot. Only hand we are afraid of is JJ but its unlikely the CO 3-bet with that.

He could also have AKdd but again we are not behind that hand.

But this is a high variance style make no mistake about it.

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Limping is even worse than raising imo.

Suited connectors aren't going to flop much often, so it's best you play them in position so you can outplay your oponent post-flop and once you do hit you can extract max value.

Thinker_145 said:

Oh common you have to open JTs UTG in a 7 handed game. If its 9 handed then perhaps you can just limp but I am not folding JTs pre.

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You have to open? So it doesn't matter what your table is like? And there are no possible circumstances or factors that might make it better to fold?

Later, you say this is a high-variance style. So are we to assume that we all have to play such a style?

akaRobbo said:

People really saying to not open with J10s!? Wow. 100% open with J10s UTG, especially at 5NL. If you're not opening these hands in EP your VPIP is going to be so low that even the fish are going to realise you're a nit and give you no action, let alone competent players/ regs.

Why are we calling the 3 bet by someone we have no info on though? By all means open, but its a different story when facing a 3-bet UTG. This is the time to fold pre.

Its pretty much a dream flop for J10s and we shouldn't be checking to villain, we need to take back pot control after his 3-bet, even be prepared to come over the top if he shows aggression to us still.

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This is full ring.

Menschlich said:

This is full ring.

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7 handed though mate