$5 NLHE Full Ring: Resteal in SB & flop middle pair on wet board - bet or check? (5NL, FR)

rowhousepd

rowhousepd

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$5 NLHE Full Ring: Resteal in SB & flop middle pair on wet board - bet or check? (5NL, FR)

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 30/12/1.5

From the SB, I re-raise the deep stack CO's steal attempt and hit middle pair on a coordinated & flushy board. Villain is a typical loose fish (30/12/1.5) who steals an average amount (25%). Don't have reads other than post flop he'll bet when he has a hand, and he actually does know how to fold (showdown ~20%). The BB is a super tight nit who never defends. Two questions:

*Should I have been restealing to begin with w/ ATo? If so, is the bet size ok?

*As played, do I lead into the flop and see where he's at? or check expecting that he'll bet a pair but risk him drawing?

*If he does put in a reasonable raise, I assume I fold?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.05(BB) Replayer
Hero ($5.34)
BB ($11.23)
UTG ($2.60)
UTG+1 ($5.26)
UTG+2 ($4.47)
MP1 ($5.05)
CO ($10.86)
BTN ($4.11)

Dealt to Hero T
club.gif
A
spade.gif


fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to $0.17, fold, Hero raises to $0.60, fold, CO calls $0.43

FLOP ($1.25) 9
diamond.gif
Q
diamond.gif
T
spade.gif


...Hero?
 
No Brainer

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How many hands have you got on CO, have you seen him fold his steals to 3 bets?

Against a 'typical loose fish' (who calls too much) we really want to be re stealing (playing as many pots) when we are in position. We are sitting 2 seats to his left so we will be in position against him most of the time.

From the SB with ATo against a raise I will usually fold here as we are often dominated and playing a difficult hand oop.

This flop is exactly why I would rather fold it oop, if we bet and get called we basically have to shutdown on the turn. We could check/call here but may have to shut down to too much aggression on the turn or river...
 
KardKlub

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I don't mind the 3 bet. With you holding an ace it makes it less likely he has one.

As for the flop I think I'd be happy to check and fold to any bet. You raised as a bluff mainly and the board just looks like trouble for your hand. He only raises 12 percent.

Although if you thought you dominated his range on the co then maybe a call would have been better.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Bet for value. There are tons of FD, GS, pair+OESD, JJ etc. that will call you. c/f is incredibly weak and you are missing a lot if you do that. If you get re-raised it's pretty much a fold, even if he does it with big draws since he has lots of equity.
 
Stu_Ungar

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Dont 3bet.

ATo has a lot more equity than something like A3o.

The difference with 3betting A3o is that you fold out better hands.

When you 3bet ATo nothing better folds.

The fact that you hold an ace does mean that its less likely that villian has one, so you can resteal with ATo, but this needs to be contrasted with ATo playing better in a non-3bet pot than a 3bet pot and it having significantly more post flop equity than A3o.
 
WVHillbilly

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Bet for value. There are tons of FD, GS, pair+OESD, JJ etc. that will call you. c/f is incredibly weak and you are missing a lot if you do that. If you get re-raised it's pretty much a fold, even if he does it with big draws since he has lots of equity.

Most of the hands you list that will call here actually beat us already so I don't understand how you think you can bet for value? JJ beats us. As does QJ/KQ/AQ. Most draws have tons of equity and they're going to raise our flop bet which you agree we have to fold to. So where is the value coming from? KT? JT?

Also if he calls what's your plan for the turn? Bet again and hope he folds JJ/QJ? I don't like betting the flop here even a little bit.

I'm also in the don't 3bet this preflop camp but once you do the flop is a check/fold imo.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Most of the hands you list that will call here actually beat us already so I don't understand how you think you can bet for value? JJ beats us. As does QJ/KQ/AQ. Most draws have tons of equity and they're going to raise our flop bet which you agree we have to fold to. So where is the value coming from? KT? JT?

Also if he calls what's your plan for the turn? Bet again and hope he folds JJ/QJ? I don't like betting the flop here even a little bit.

I'm also in the don't 3bet this preflop camp but once you do the flop is a check/fold imo.

Yeah, I was probably being stupid not thinking it through. Sorry OP, you can throw my post out the window
 
rowhousepd

rowhousepd

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ATo has a lot more equity than something like A3o.

The difference with 3betting A3o is that you fold out better hands.

When you 3bet ATo nothing better folds.

Yikes. Could you explaiin this one to me? How does A3o make better hands fold more than ATo? :hmmmm:
 
Stu_Ungar

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Yikes. Could you explaiin this one to me? How does A3o make better hands fold more than ATo? :hmmmm:

Well lets say villian opens with A7o, you 3bet and he folds.

AT beats A7 and A3 dosent

Lets say villian opens with AK, You 3bet and he dosent fold

3betting ATo dosent fold out anything it beats
 
Sysvr4

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AT beats A7 and A3 dosent

Lets say villian opens with AK, You 3bet and he dosent fold

3betting ATo dosent fold out anything it beats


All true, but folding out better isn't the only reason we raise. And given OP's description ("loose fish") with a 25% steal range and a non-defending nit in the BB, we can safely raise this hand for value. What am I missing?
 
No Brainer

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You really want to raise ATo oop for value?

Actually I can't see how it could ever be for value as we are behind his continuing range all of the time. Just because he steals 25% doesn't mean he will continue with that whole range. It will be more like 10 - 15% which we are already behind. Add in the fact that we are also oop and we have a recipe for disaster.
 
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