$5 NLHE Full Ring: Was my play with the combo draw good here?

T

Tricky123bet

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Total posts
225
Chips
0
Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 15/6/8

PokerStars - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 110.4 BB (VPIP: 15.96, PFR: 14.89, 3Bet Preflop: 16.00, hands: 95)
Hero (SB): 100 BB
BB: 101.4 BB (VPIP: 17.29, PFR: 12.78, 3Bet Preflop: 2.56, Hands: 137)
UTG: 115.6 BB (VPIP: 12.41, PFR: 9.14, 3Bet Preflop: 3.99, Hands: 1,447)
UTG+1: 100 BB (VPIP: 12.45, PFR: 10.51, 3Bet Preflop: 4.42, Hands: 2,857)
MP: 115 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
MP+1: 61.2 BB (VPIP: 42.11, PFR: 21.05, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
CO: 222.2 BB (VPIP: 13.48, PFR: 4.96, 3Bet Preflop: 1.96, Hands: 143)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:club: Q:club:

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 2.6 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) 8:club: 9:club: 6:heart:
Hero checks, CO bets 4 BB, Hero raises to 13.4 BB, CO calls 9.4 BB

Turn: (33.8 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond:
Hero bets 19 BB, CO raises to 49 BB, Hero calls 30 BB

River: (131.8 BB, 2 players) 9:heart:
Hero checks, CO bets 156.8 BB and is all-in, fold

[spoil]CO wins 126.4 BB
[/spoil]

I like how I played the flop, I want to get value from the times when I hit on further streets, and obviously don't mind a fold from him on the flop. His AF of 8 also tells me he might be cbetting a little too wide.

Turn is where a lot of his Tx type stuff got there, 77 improved and is probably calling on the turn at least, 99, 88, 66 is not folding. But is it better to continue with the aggression or do I check-call instead? The good thing with leading the turn is that I get to set my own price, so maybe a little smaller bet would be good? What do you think?

I get raised though, and take the equity I have with my twelve outs (getting 3.4 to 1, and I need roughly 3 to 1). I end up not improving on the river, and fold to his all-in. Thoughts?
 
S

sarniack

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Total posts
119
Chips
0
I get raised though, and take the equity I have with my twelve outs (getting 3.4 to 1, and I need roughly 3 to 1). I end up not improving on the river, and fold to his all-in. Thoughts?

How many hands did you have on him?

In such spot OOP i tend to 3bet with any part of my range (like 76s+, 66+, QTs+, KTs+ and any suited Ace). It seems like vilalin is very tight, but I am not sure on how many hands this stats were calculated, so I think I would still 3bet here.

Following your line, I actually like your x/r on the flop. But then, because you are OOP, I would only call on the turn. In position, you could try to bluff on the river, unless he leads into you, OOP, you can only hope to make the hand. For that reason I would just call the turn and fold the river bet, unless some good card comes.

I am not very experienced though. I would like to see other comments on this hand :)
 
Last edited:
T

Tricky123bet

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Total posts
225
Chips
0
How many hands did you have on him?

In such spot OOP i tend to 3bet with any part of my range (like 76s+, 66+, QTs+, KTs+ and any suited Ace). It seems like vilalin is very tight, but I am not sure on how many hands this stats were calculated, so I think I would still 3bet here.

Following your line, I actually like your x/r on the flop. But then, because you are OOP, I would only call on the turn. In position, you could try to bluff on the river, unless he leads into you, OOP, you can only hope to make the hand. For that reason I would just call the turn and fold the river bet, unless some good card comes.

I am not very experienced though. I would like to see other comments on this hand :)

I agree, 3betting pre is what some people like to do here. 3betting suited connectors is something I should incorporate into my game more. Because atm I find it hard to play in 3bet pots, especially OOP, with suited connectors, so I tend to just flat instead. I wonder if it's a mistake, and if so, if it is a small or big mistake.

128 hands on villain btw, also 67% (2/3) Fold to cbet
 
S

sarniack

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Total posts
119
Chips
0
Because atm I find it hard to play in 3bet pots, especially OOP, with suited connectors, so I tend to just flat instead.

IMO you 3bet suited connectors as bluffs (apart from AK obviously), so actually it is exactly the point: to not play OOP and just take the pot right there or to put villain in tougher spots, because then you have all monsters in your range and villain does not (assuming villain calls). So imo this is exactly the reason you should tend to 3bet in such spots :).
 
T

Tricky123bet

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Total posts
225
Chips
0
Also the 7 on the turn makes it very interesting in terms of whether a check-call or lead is better. Because his overpairs and sets are likely going to slow down when it is a 4 to a straight board.

Also a check-call on the turn with a T on the river could be a money situation for me. I would get it all against his Jx hands (probably only JTs and JJ), and I wonder how the rest of his range would respond on such a river though. Because a river lead by me could look bluffy to him in that spot.

Idk, really just tossing ideas around when I should focus on the actual action, but this hand could for sure have gone a lot of different ways depending on how I played that turn/ what the river card is.
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
QJs is so good hand that you can easily call it vs CO, there is no need to turn it a bluff, but I don’t see 3betting as a mistake.

Here CO is so tight that I don’t see cold folding a mistake either ;) against super tight player who is not agro calling might be just pointless he wont pay you, so why not to 3bet. Then again if he has static ranges, as it seems, and really opens tight from CO he might pay you. Also large difference between PFR and VPIP suggest he has quite much fish in him still.
 
J

Jreece18

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Total posts
306
Chips
0
Literally reduce calling OOP other than pocket pairs. Calling isn't defending your blinds in any way, you're giving villain the initiative and you're basically lost in the hand. He's pretty nitty preflop and idk about his AF but any aggression you have to respect.

Quite like the way you played the flop, don't hate the call on the turn, obviously easy play on the river... But this situation is the reason why you need to limit calling from the blinds - you put yourself at a disadvantage and it isn't profitable.
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Total posts
6,492
Awards
3
Chips
37
Maybe your games aren't aggressive enough yet, but a general rule at higher stakes is 3-bet or fold your hands from the SB. Only call when really passive players are in the BB or fish.

As played, it doesn't make a ton of sense that you're CR the flop and then betting that turn. What are you repping at that point? T9? A lot of two pair hands can c/c there. Sets you don't want to be blown off the turn and won't bet most of the time.

As played, you have to just call the turn raise and pray you hit.
 
T

Tricky123bet

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Total posts
225
Chips
0
Maybe your games aren't aggressive enough yet, but a general rule at higher stakes is 3-bet or fold your hands from the SB. Only call when really passive players are in the BB or fish.

As played, it doesn't make a ton of sense that you're CR the flop and then betting that turn. What are you repping at that point? T9? A lot of two pair hands can c/c there. Sets you don't want to be blown off the turn and won't bet most of the time.

As played, you have to just call the turn raise and pray you hit.

I don't feel comfortable playing OOP in a 3bet pot with mediocre hands. I try to save that for when it is outright profitable to 3bet bluff preflop (if I have stats on the opponent), or when I'm IP and think I can them off their hand postflop postflop.
I can assure you though that I don't call smaller SCs in SB, like 98s, T9s or even JTs, I almost always fold them (and rarely 3bet them). QJs and KQs I feel more comfortable with just calling and potentially floating/check-raising if I miss. In this hand though a fold pre would probably have been best for me.

The turn lead was because I thought I could get him off overpairs and JTs. But I'm not even sure if that is always going to happen. I have a lot of RIO too against bigger flushdraws. So I agree turn wasn't very good. I probably just got blinded by the big draw I had.
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
I don't feel comfortable playing OOP in a 3bet pot with mediocre hands.

I have the same. The easy solution I already get sometimes correct is not to try to win the hand. (I know this is noobish and around NL25 almost illegal, but good starting point) You just trust to be the more level headed player when villain calls. So CB when you feel the board is right for that, barrel when you think it’s right, point being don’t CB because you 3betted, just do what board tells you to do. If you feel CB might be wrong just don’t CB. You bluffed losing the hand when called is more expectable than not. However whatever you feel about QJs you need to learn to 3bet even worse hands, remember that you 3bet these hands when it’s not profitable to call. This is quite important I feel to get very good win-rate.

John especially mentioned higher stakes, only reason for that I have found this far is that BB is going to get aggressive a lot, there might be other reasons too. But what? With QJs you don’t really mind BB to call.

My record for NL5 6max zoom from SB
3bet 7 times: -171bb/100 (-$0.60)
Called 2bet 34 times practically always against later position open (against fish always too) +215bb/100 ($3.66)
Folded 10 times -40bb/100 (-$0.20)

Edit: I got quite nice idea (first idea) seconds ago. When you feel that you have a hand that should win when you see the flop, you have a hand that is most likely a candidate to call not 3bet. That is besides the fact that being able to 3bet QJs with profit should be a basic skill.
 
Last edited:
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
I feel like checking turn is best... if he's calling our raise on the flop he's got to like something.

I think we bet turn when we want folds... but I honestly cant see how villain is ever folding here.
 
Top