$5 NLHE Full Ring: Overshoving the river

Gohaku94

Gohaku94

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Hello everyone,


An interesting hand that i played today and i'd like to share my thought process for shoving the river.


So preflop and flop i think they are pretty standard.
On the turn i decided to check just to see what he will do on the river. If i bet the turn i don't get any information since he might just call i'll be short on river and i would probably just shove most rivers.
Once he checks again on the river he can't really have a hand better than KK, the best hand he can have there to play it like that is AQ so just decided the jam it :D


What do you guys think about it? :five:
PokerStars - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4


BB: 99.6 BB (VPIP: 16.25, PFR: 11.47, 3Bet Preflop: 2.81, hands: 534)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 16.94, PFR: 11.94, 3Bet Preflop: 2.55, Hands: 626)
UTG+1: 92.6 BB (VPIP: 8.33, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 36)
MP: 113.2 BB (VPIP: 9.28, PFR: 7.22, 3Bet Preflop: 2.94, Hands: 98)
MP+1: 152.4 BB (VPIP: 52.94, PFR: 47.06, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
CO: 93 BB (VPIP: 21.05, PFR: 7.89, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 40)
Hero (BTN): 100 BB
SB: 197.2 BB (VPIP: 24.73, PFR: 11.83, 3Bet Preflop: 4.26, Hands: 94)


SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB


Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:club: K:diamond:


fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 11 BB, fold, fold, MP+1 calls 8 BB


Flop: (23.4 BB, 2 players) 8:club: 5:club: Q:heart:
MP+1 checks, Hero bets 12.4 BB, MP+1 calls 12.4 BB


Turn: (48.2 BB, 2 players) 5:heart:
MP+1 checks, Hero checks


River: (48.2 BB, 2 players) 3:club:
MP+1 checks, Hero bets 76.6 BB and is all-in, MP+1 calls 76.6 BB


Hero shows K:club: K:diamond: (Two Pair, Kings and Fives)
(Pre 72%, Flop 81%, Turn 89%)
MP+1 shows Q:club: A:diamond: (Two Pair, Queens and Fives)
(Pre 28%, Flop 19%, Turn 11%)
Hero wins 193 BB
 
B

braveslice

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Can you elaborate this: ” If i bet the turn i don't get any information since he might just call i'll be short on river and i would probably just shove most rivers.”

So you don’t want to shove river, at least you make it sound like that.

Also what kind of information you are looking from 53/47 player?
 
Gohaku94

Gohaku94

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Can you elaborate this: ” If i bet the turn i don't get any information since he might just call i'll be short on river and i would probably just shove most rivers.”

So you don’t want to shove river, at least you make it sound like that.

Also what kind of information you are looking from 53/47 player?


He is 53/47 after 18 hands, that can mean anything. it's not a massive gap between vpip and pfr so can't really treat him like a total fish.
If i bet the turn and he calls i can't know if i'm ahead or behind, or if i bet and he shoves same thing. But if i check and he checks again on the river i know for sure that i'm ahead, i don't think there are better hands than mine that are checking 2 times there, but worse that could call.:joyman:
 
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braveslice

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If 53/47 player bets after you check, you gain no information was my point.

I did my best to understand the hand, but honestly I don’t have a clue. Hero waited to the river to make sure you have the best hand and then shoved is one of the plans that is either completely wrong or geniuslike higher level stuff. Hopefully the latter.

I would prefer to see hero's line as a bluff against a nit or tag who doesn’t like completed flushes, not for value with over pair to the board.
 
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Gohaku94

Gohaku94

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If 53/47 player bets after you check, you gain no information was my point.

I did my best to understand the hand, but honestly I don’t have a clue. Hero waited to the river to make sure you have the best hand and then shoved is one of the plans that is either completely wrong or geniuslike higher level stuff. Hopefully the latter.

I would prefer to see hero's line as a bluff against a nit or tag who doesn’t like completed flushes, not for value with over pair to the board.


Well it might be completely wrong as you said. But as played i believe i'm never losing the hand on the river, i might lose it with bet/calls on turn. Even by overshoving the river there should be no better hands that calls me but at 5nl people would call.:rolleyes:
 
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braveslice

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I don’t mind over shoving river; just that hero should never be there with that option open anymore imo, after he bet/call turn.

Like I said shoving might be a bluff line, you are basically saying you have a flush, set of 3 or nothing and not too many people over bet in a fear of folds.
 
Alucard

Alucard

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I'm just gonna bet bet shove riverI've seen people call down with worse trying to bluff catch + there are draws to get value from
Might check turn if I know he's the guy to stab vs passiveness
 
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braveslice

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I'm just gonna bet bet shove riverI've seen people call down with worse trying to bluff catch + there are draws to get value from
Might check turn if I know he's the guy to stab vs passiveness

I see a logical reason in checking turn hoping a stab, not that I would do it in this hand given double flush draw and our position IP where we already saw he did not bet, this however was not the mentioned reason in opening post. Also your style currently would be betting turn small hoping a raise?

Do you mean by ‘+ to get value from’ meaning bluff catching is logical because hero might bluff missed draw?
 
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Alucard

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Wait, I totally missed that we are IP. I thought it was from the blinds. I'm never checking turn then. Gonna bet bet shove with the K blocker.
If he'd shove vs turn bet I'm calling obv. It's just a pure value line for me.
People call down light & I don't see this one folded TPTK with his stats
 
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Sorin Iliescu

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I think you played the hand well, read his hand and maximized the value. For me, he played kind of trapper but he could have neither a flush nor a 5
 
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andreii955

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trust me

So at least explain why he is not ready. He did win the hand and cashed 193BB... In my opinion he is ready to play 0.05.
if you manage to win a big pot, that does not mean you're good for nl 5, statistics say something else about you, you get into the stats and you'll see I'm right BTY : is simple to play with KK or AA
 
Alucard

Alucard

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if you manage to win a big pot, that does not mean you're good for nl 5, statistics say something else about you, you get into the stats and you'll see I'm right BTY : is simple to play with KK or AA


I see that you are ready :D
 
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Grearix

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if you manage to win a big pot, that does not mean you're good for nl 5, statistics say something else about you, you get into the stats and you'll see I'm right BTY : is simple to play with KK or AA
But even when he is bad, it's only 0.05 he's playing. Only reading will not help you, you need to get some practice as well.
 
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