$5 NLHE Full Ring: Monotone flop & Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros)

rowhousepd

rowhousepd

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$5 NLHE Full Ring: Monotone flop & Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros)

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 13/7/1.8

With big slick and 4 players to monotone flop, I have a nut 4-flush draw w/ two huge overcards. I bet really small (just trying to build a pot, but perhaps this was unwise?) and the last to act villain over-raises. On the turn 4 people are splitting a big pot, I hit my TPTK w/ nut flush draw. Checked to UTG+2 who shoves. (He is a 13/7/1.8 nit. No other reads.)

Do I call since I do have SD value w/ my A and could make my flush? Is this an easy fold w/ 2 others to act after me? Did I play this hand horribly and that's what got me into this position in the first place begin with?

Full Tilt, $0.02/$0.05 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG): $4.55
UTG+1: $4.95
UTG+2: $5
MP1: $2.50
MP2: $4.43
CO: $13.48
BTN: $5.17
SB: $5.11
BB: $9.15

Pre-Flop: A
spade.gif
K
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dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $0.10, UTG+1 calls $0.10, UTG+2 calls $0.10, 5 folds, BB calls $0.05

Flop: ($0.42) 5
spade.gif
6
spade.gif
4
spade.gif
(4 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.15, UTG+1 calls $0.15, UTG+2 raises to $1.02, BB calls $1.02, Hero calls $0.87, UTG+1 calls $0.87

Turn: ($4.50) A
heart.gif
(4 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets $3.88 and is All-In,
Herro?????
 
PattyR

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why does that hand converter not show suits?
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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Don't min raise especially utg.If he already has the flush\st8 your roughly 16% to win.I see nothing your ahead of here that villain will slam this turn card against that many players.Your 20% against a set,$7.90 in the pot $3.43 for you to call.Is there anything this players is shoving the turn here that isn't set,st8,flush?Do you think your geting the right pot odds?
 
bgomez89

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Bet sizing is crap. Raise 3x pre bet 3/4 pot on the flop. As played i call
 
Siao

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Why are you value-betting when you have no made hand. Push more into the pot. There's no way you have the best hand here. At 5NL, and only a .10 raise, that flop screams someone hit. Not worth the chase even if you are 2.1/1 heads up.
 
rowhousepd

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First off, just a general q about preflop raises:

Is it ever OK to min-raise in EP? AK (though I guess more so w/ AKs even) is sort of a drawing hand -- one that could flop nut straight draws, nut/near-nut flush draws, and of course TPTKs. I was thinking it might be OK sometimes to make a small-ish raise EP, especially at a table of nits, w/ this kind of hand. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Alight, back to this hand....

why does that hand converter not show suits?

Wait, did the hand converter not work correctly? I used Leggo 4-colors & it shows up ok for me, but maybe not for everyone else? Hmm. Sorry 'bout that. :eek:

If he already has the flush\st8 your roughly 16% to win.I see nothing your ahead of here that villain will slam this turn card against that many players.Your 20% against a set,$7.90 in the pot $3.43 for you to call.Is there anything this players is shoving the turn here that isn't set,st8,flush?Do you think your geting the right pot odds?

OK, so I admit I'm not very good at figuring out equity (or using Pstove at this point) here's an attempt at the #'s:

I couldn't put the villain on a straight bc there's no way he sees the flop w/ 87 or 32. He could have a set obviously as he'd probably call a PFR w/ 66-44 and definitely w/ AA. But I also don't necessarily see him shoving his set into a 4 person multiway w/ such a dripping wet flop (...or do I?).

The A on the turn either made a set of aces which has me crushed. If it made a pair we're either chopping or I have his AQ, AJ, or maybe ATs beat, even if it includes one a spade. I don't see a nit seeing the flop w/ a weaker ace than that so I'm not too worried about something like A4 making two pair.

Which leaves the flush he might have made on the flop. Combos here I think include KQ, KJ, QJ, and KT spades.

So that's the range putting him on: four possible sets + the flush combos above. In PStove that comes out to ~48%, basically a coin flip. Am I way off here?

Why are you value-betting when you have no made hand. Push more into the pot. There's no way you have the best hand here. At 5NL, and only a .10 raise, that flop screams someone hit. Not worth the chase even if you are 2.1/1 heads up.

I hear you ... I think. Btw, is "building the pot" always the same thing as value betting?
 
bgomez89

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First off, just a general q about preflop raises:

Is it ever OK to min-raise in EP? AK (though I guess more so w/ AKs even) is sort of a drawing hand -- one that could flop nut straight draws, nut/near-nut flush draws, and of course TPTKs. I was thinking it might be OK sometimes to make a small-ish raise EP, especially at a table of nits, w/ this kind of hand. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Alight, back to this hand....

I think you should only min raise this hand if you are trying to induce a raise from someone who you know likes to 3bet min raises wide. This is rare so always stick to 3x-4x especially at these low limits

OK, so I admit I'm not very good at figuring out equity (or using Pstove at this point) here's an attempt at the #'s:

I couldn't put the villain on a straight bc there's no way he sees the flop w/ 87 or 32. He could have a set obviously as he'd probably call a PFR w/ 66-44 and definitely w/ AA. But I also don't necessarily see him shoving his set into a 4 person multiway w/ such a dripping wet flop (...or do I?).

The A on the turn either made a set of aces which has me crushed. If it made a pair we're either chopping or I have his AQ, AJ, or maybe ATs beat, even if it includes one a spade. I don't see a nit seeing the flop w/ a weaker ace than that so I'm not too worried about something like A4 making two pair.

Which leaves the flush he might have made on the flop. Combos here I think include KQ, KJ, QJ, and KT spades.

So that's the range putting him on: four possible sets + the flush combos above. In PStove that comes out to ~48%, basically a coin flip. Am I way off here?

You're missing out on a bunch of other cards that raise here. Sets do this because of how wet the board is to try and get value but also overpairs like 77, maybe 99-JJ possibly. He could be doing this with a flopped flush but since you have the Ace of spades, it's less likely(or so ive heard other people say). Plus the odds of flopping a flush are i think 1 in 121 times or something so you probably shouldn't worry too much about it.

I hear you ... I think. Btw, is "building the pot" always the same thing as value betting?
Value betting is when you bet a hand because you're pretty sure you're ahead and you're betting to get worse hands to call which gets us money (unless they suckout :D).

Building the pot is simply causing the pot to get bigger. This can be a result of Vbetting, semi-bluffing, or bluffing.
 
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