$5 NLHE Full Ring: JJ in the middle of short stack and deep stack's PF action..

Hi all, just wondering what the take is on this? Do I raise, call or fold here, its a weird spot given the stack sizes of original raiser and the BTN?

And if I do call, whats the plan post flop given I'm always going to pay off the short stack if over cards don't hit but I'm playing for my whole stack against BTN in the process?

Stats for UTG - VP 14/ PFR 14/ 3B 0/ CB 0 - over 23 hands
Stats for BTN - VP 13/ PFR 9/ 3B 12/ CB - - over 71 hands

PokerStars - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 126.4 BB (VPIP: 15.94, PFR: 11.59, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 72)
UTG: 32.4 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
Hero (UTG+1): 106.6 BB
MP: 46.4 BB (VPIP: 44.00, PFR: 24.00, 3Bet Preflop: 18.18, Hands: 25)
MP+1: 193.6 BB (VPIP: 8.06, PFR: 6.45, 3Bet Preflop: 4.00, Hands: 62)
CO: 40 BB (VPIP: 13.69, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 3.51, Hands: 171)
BTN: 204.6 BB (VPIP: 13.04, PFR: 8.70, 3Bet Preflop: 11.54, Hands: 71)
SB: 79 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:diamond: J:heart:

UTG raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 12 BB, fold, fold, UTG calls 9 BB,

Hero?????

We have Jacks so folding isn't an option - I think you just flat and reevaluate.

There are some flops that are good for us.

If we flop a set we can stack off, obviously

button is deep enough to just see a flop IMO. If either villain shows serious strength you can just fold -

your getting slightly better then 4/1 to call pre.

hmm actually after seeing the BTN's 3bet stats I think a pretty good case can be made for 4betting here.

Karozi615 said:

hmm actually after seeing the BTN's 3bet stats I think a pretty good case can be made for 4betting here.

Click to expand...

I think your spot on with the call, my fold was way too tight...

What made me initially worried was the short stack's range probably has me beat there and the BTN's range is so wide, I'm not 100% I'd be able to get any action from him post flop? Whereas under cards or I'm still flatting UTG's shove on the flop (extremely likely) in order to get value from BTN on later streets? UTG's range has a lot of over pairs in it which I have to pay off to stay in to try and induce action from the BTN.

That stated I think 4 betting for values valid but as it leaves him folding the majority of the time and me paying off UTG I can't see much value there..

If I did 4bet what do you reckon the bet sizing should be to ideally extract value from BTN's weak range?

I think a 4bet would be too aggressive here, whilst we are ahead of some of his 3bet % he reraised an UTG raise from, what seems to be, a fairly tight player, his range should be tighter. A call is definitely fine, your not getting great odds to set mine (if your guaranteed to stack him every time you flop a jack you make only a slight profit), but as an over pair to the board it should be good enough of the time.
So call and if the SS stack shoves on jack > board (unless monotone or something), call. He should have 4bet with AA or KK and probably QQ.

CALL CALL CALL AHHHHHH so much SET Mining missed here

Good fold tho, there is never a bad fold. In retrospect.

You didnt lose anymore that hand. But next time if it is really cheap to call with any PP go for it. Flop those sets and get paid off! Thats the bread and butter!

Cheers guys, should have called in retrospect but in future against this opponent I'd 4 bet like Karozi615 said (but small 4 bet).. BTN had Q3s so in future I'm small 4 betting for value against this particular opponent in this spot (OOP to him on BTN) 100% of the time.