$5 NLHE Full Ring: JJ flop set OOP

J

Jreece18

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Total posts
306
Chips
0
888 Poker - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 95.2 BB (VPIP: 14.33, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 3.37, hands: 303)
BTN: 112.6 BB (VPIP: 10.96, PFR: 9.72, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 148)
Hero (SB): 100 BB
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 14.50, PFR: 9.45, 3Bet Preflop: 2.50, Hands: 482)
UTG: 138.8 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
UTG+1: 48 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
MP: 138.4 BB (VPIP: 5.71, PFR: 5.71, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
MP+1: 108 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
MP+2: 100 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:club: J:diamond:

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 calls 1 BB, fold, CO raises to 4 BB, fold, Hero calls 3.6 BB, fold, MP+1 calls 3 BB

Flop: (13 BB, 3 players) 6:club: A:spade: J:heart:
Hero checks, MP+1 checks, CO bets 6 BB, Hero calls 6 BB, fold

Turn: (25 BB, 2 players) 7:club:
Hero checks, CO bets 12 BB, Hero calls 12 BB

River: (49 BB, 2 players) K:club:
Hero bets 24.4 BB, CO calls 24.4 BB

I didn't raise preflop because he was tight and had a super low steal % (like 5%). OOP vs tight players who are attacking I basically use jacks to setmine. Any other suggestions or criticisms are welcome.

Still find I really struggle OOP and usually have trouble knowing what to do. Was this line right? Personally whenever someone check/calls down and bets on the river I know they've probably got something big. I feel like a lot of players at the micros struggle to get away from this.

Didn't really fear he had a flush.. Thought he had a pair of aces on the flop and thought he could have 2 pair - especially on the river. The river completing the flush draw I thought would slow him down so I feel like I basically had to bet this out? Is the river okay?
 
M

MinhANguyen

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Total posts
695
Chips
0
Flop call is good. The flop has no flush draw, and you don't want to blow MP + 1 off his Ace/some Jack pairs. On the turn, you need to check-raise. I think a lot of his range has big Ace hands in them based on his PFR. Why did you flat the turn? Were you going for a river check-raise?
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Total posts
6,492
Awards
3
Chips
37
You should just lead the flop or CR. MW if someone doesn't have an A, then they aren't going to c-bet as a bluff as often, and you won't build a pot as effectively as you can if you just lead or CR. CR is fine on a dry board like this as you're not likely to get two opponents to go too far, you want to build a big pot against someone who does have Top pair + here.

Do not, not not CR the turn. That's the exact opposite of what you want to do. You either lead again, or depending on what you did on the flop, c/c. On the river against tight opponents I like just betting. You don't want to go for CR against tight opponent very often unless you have a monster, but even then it's not typically the best play. They will check behind more often than other players, and they won't pay off w/ worse as often. So I like the river lead, but it needs to be bigger. 2/3rds - 3/4th pot.
 
J

Jreece18

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Total posts
306
Chips
0
I didn't check raise or lead out on the first two streets because I felt like he was just super tight pre flop and was going to get away from anything... I rarely check raise depending on the player because it looks so strong that I find people usually just give up.

I seriously struggle with OOP feel so much stronger IP and know what to do. I quite like the idea of c/ring the flop and leading out, but if he just calls the c/r I feel it's quite likely he's going to fold if I lead out on the turn?
 
M

MinhANguyen

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Total posts
695
Chips
0
I didn't check raise or lead out on the first two streets because I felt like he was just super tight pre flop and was going to get away from anything... I rarely check raise depending on the player because it looks so strong that I find people usually just give up.

I seriously struggle with OOP feel so much stronger IP and know what to do. I quite like the idea of c/ring the flop and leading out, but if he just calls the c/r I feel it's quite likely he's going to fold if I lead out on the turn?

I don't think most people are getting away from AK/some AQ on this board texture, especially at the lower stakes to just a CR + turn lead. If he folds to a CR then turn lead on this board without the nuts, then you can exploit him by bluff-raising him and barreling off with ATC really. Headsup I prefer CRing the flop, but with MP behind us I prefer CRing the turn. We don't want him to get away cheaply if he has a piece.

Of course check-raises look strong. But a good amount of people can't lay down top pair, especially at the lower stakes. I remember I won a lot of BIs back at 25NL from people overplaying/not being able to get away from TP. And I also learned not to double/triple barrel them haha.

Yep, it's hard to play OOP no matter how good you are. A lot more especially when your opponents start getting aggro when you move up, and they're better at reading hand ranges. I hate it when people coldcall OTB. They can make my life hell, especially if I'm opening something marginal.
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

PIRANHA-------->< (((º>
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Total posts
4,393
Awards
1
Chips
1
c/raise flop, bet something like 35-40% on the turn to get a call and have a nice pot built up and the give him another good price on the river on an already inflated pot. like 55% on river. top two pair/AK/AQ/AJ wiLL pay off here.


c/r flop or turn is a good idea here. IMO turn is a better idea because it might look like we picked up a FD or they might have picked up a FD and we have more chances to get paid off.

Anyone agree with this ?
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

PIRANHA-------->< (((º>
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Total posts
4,393
Awards
1
Chips
1
You should just lead the flop or CR. MW if someone doesn't have an A, then they aren't going to c-bet as a bluff as often, and you won't build a pot as effectively as you can if you just lead or CR. CR is fine on a dry board like this as you're not likely to get two opponents to go too far, you want to build a big pot against someone who does have Top pair + here.

Do not, not not CR the turn. That's the exact opposite of what you want to do. You either lead again, or depending on what you did on the flop, c/c. On the river against tight opponents I like just betting. You don't want to go for CR against tight opponent very often unless you have a monster, but even then it's not typically the best play. They will check behind more often than other players, and they won't pay off w/ worse as often. So I like the river lead, but it needs to be bigger. 2/3rds - 3/4th pot.


why?^^^^^^ check raising flops is usually a set and everyone knows that. usually we check raise turn in order to hide our hand strength and maybe get one more bet from villain right? ( or allow him to catch up somewhat and maybe have better chances for our set to get paid off)?
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Total posts
6,492
Awards
3
Chips
37
why?^^^^^^ check raising flops is usually a set and everyone knows that. usually we check raise turn in order to hide our hand strength and maybe get one more bet from villain right? ( or allow him to catch up somewhat and maybe have better chances for our set to get paid off)?

You just said CR flop in the previous post, and you're asking me why now? :)

I prefer a lead on the flop over a CR, but CR the turn very few people do it as a bluff. That's when the red flags go off for people. We don't want any alarm bells on this kind of turn in order to get max value. Not to mention his opponent is betting his hand like he has a weak Ax or Jx, and being called by better is a long shot. And I disagree that everyone knows a flop CR is a set.

You said to CR the turn, but what hand is OP calling the flop w/ that he'd want to CR the turn with that includes a draw (you said to CR turn because it will look like he picked up a draw)? QcTc is the only reasonable thing I could think of, JcXc and AcXc aren't going to want to CR.
 
Aceplayer55

Aceplayer55

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Total posts
302
Chips
0
John A:
But if he plans to bet the river, shouldnt he c/r the turn instead of c/c?
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Total posts
6,492
Awards
3
Chips
37
John A:
But if he plans to bet the river, shouldnt he c/r the turn instead of c/c?

No. But again, I like bet/bet/bet or CR/bet/bet to maximize value vs. weaker hands the most. CR the turn just allows your opponent to set the turn sizing, and allows him to get away from the medium strength part of his range, which based on this texture will be most of his overall range. If our opponent has bottom set here, and you bet/bet, you're going to get raised at some point in the hand. Similar w/ AJ/A6, which will mostly be raised on the flop. The line by OP and others on here are the least profitable imho.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
I like leading my sets on Ace high, multi-way flops. Especially when the opener doesn't seem to be too aggro. Really don't want to see my passive opponents checking behind here.
 
TimovieMan

TimovieMan

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Total posts
2,264
Chips
0
My line here is usually Bet/Bet/Bet.

If I know that CO will c-bet 3-way nearly 100% of the time, then I like Check-Raise/Bet/Bet.
 
Top