$5 NLHE Full Ring: JJ - button - 6max - unknown vilain

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Vilain is unknown but just won a hand with 64 suited, rivered flush dint shove but valued me into calling TPTK.

UTG ($3.62)
MP ($2.71)
CO ($5.20)
Hero (Button) ($4.85)
SB ($6.86)
BB ($8.19)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J , J
3 folds, Hero bets $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.42) 4 , 8 , 5 (2 players)
BB bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.02) 10 (2 players)
BB bets $0.96, Hero calls $0.96

River: ($2.94) 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.95, BB raises to $6.73 (All-In), Hero ???

Total pot: $4.84 | Rake: $0.32

I can see you coming with the: why no 3bet? I was trying to get maximum value as I was 100% my hand was good, on river I am not so sure.

i think you either need to check back this river or at least bet more

bgomez89 said:

i think you either need to check back this river or at least bet more

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I don't mind the river bet (could go a bit bigger) but once he ch/r you have to fold.

Yeah, figured, thats also what I did.

Never ever ever check back river.

Good general rule: river check-raises, especially all in, are almost always for value. Think about what he does this with for value, and compare your hand to that range. Unless villain's a maniac, this is a very clear fold. I think you see basically 67 or trip 4s at worst here.

i dont understand if we bet river and get called what we can expect to beat? u think just cause he is an assumed maniac that he cant let go of say A-8 or any A-rag? which then would be profitable. but i need help in understanding this part

A8/AT/99 will all call us. Hell I've seen people call with 77/66 just because they think you're bluffing. Not betting this river is leaving lots of money on the table.

*N.B.* Ridicule small bet is the only way I found draws might call me on the river.

GotaLovePoke said:

*N.B.* Ridicule small bet is the only way I found draws might call me on the river.

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this makes no sense, I'll do the best I can to explain why. Let's say you bet $2 on the river instead of $0.95. Your smaller bet needs to be called a little more than twice as often in order to achieve the same EV. So even if some draws call with the smaller bet, I highly doubt you'll get more calls often enough to make that the more profitable line. That is, say he calls the larger bet 30% of the time, he needs to call the smaller bet ~65% of the time to achieve the same EV, and weak draws that will call a small river bet are not a large enough part of his range/ will not hero call often enough to make that the better line.

Basically you don't care how often draws or other weak hands will call, you care about what will make the most money long term, and that is the larger bet.

+1 to ^ this

OP I find you made several mistakes in the hand. First one, min-raise OTB, wtf? Stop fancy playing, raise 3-4x and that's that.

If you think you're good on the turn, and you seem convinced about it, RAISE. Here's why :

1) If he's bluffing you he will most likely not fire again on the river. Some laggo players do but you don't have enough info on him to assume that. So if he has air here and he folds you haven't lost anything.

2) If he's doing it with SD/FD, Tx hands then you want to raise him for value, or you're letting him see the river for free at this point. Which is what you did and allowed him to spike his flush/trips/whatever with no cost to him.

GotaLovePoke said:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Vilain is unknown but just won a hand with 64 suited, rivered flush dint shove but valued me into calling TPTK.

UTG ($3.62)
MP ($2.71)
CO ($5.20)
Hero (Button) ($4.85)
SB ($6.86)
BB ($8.19)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J

, J

3 folds, Hero bets $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.42) 4

, 8

, 5

(2 players)
BB bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.02) 10

(2 players)
BB bets $0.96, Hero calls $0.96

River: ($2.94) 4

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.95, BB raises to $6.73 (All-In), Hero ???

Total pot: $4.84 | Rake: $0.32

I can see you coming with the: why no 3bet? I was trying to get maximum value as I was 100% my hand was good, on river I am not so sure.

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Why no 3bet? Why no 3bet?

Oh, because there was no raise to 3bet - doh!

Raise flop.

ComplexPlaya said:

+1 to ^ this

OP I find you made several mistakes in the hand. First one, min-raise OTB, wtf? Stop fancy playing, raise 3-4x and that's that.

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It's 5NL - a min raise = 10c. That's definitely not 10c.

WSOP13 said:

i dont understand if we bet river and get called what we can expect to beat? u think just cause he is an assumed maniac that he cant let go of say A-8 or any A-rag? which then would be profitable. but i need help in understanding this part

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78, 89, 8x, 99, 65, 57, A8, A5, 66, 77, 85, random tens that got there on the turn (like JTh), I could go on...

Villain is an unknown at 10nl. You just assume he can't fold a pair until he proves otherwise. And villain doesn't need to call with all above hands either. Maybe regs can make a river bet thinner, but in reality I find it hard to believe very many players can make value betting actually bad here.

ChuckTs said:

78, 89, 8x, 99, 65, 57, A8, A5, 66, 77, 85, random tens that got there on the turn (like JTh), I could go on...

Villain is an unknown at 10nl. You just assume he can't fold a pair until he proves otherwise. And villain doesn't need to call with all above hands either. Maybe regs can make a river bet thinner, but in reality I find it hard to believe very many players can make value betting actually bad here.

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57 and 85 call 4xBB pre? i really dont see half those ranges calling or even being in their throughout the whole hand

Suited, for sure. At least some % of the time.

Even if we discount them completely, which I think is incorrect, the rest of my range still holds.

Really, you can't narrow an unknown micro player's range down to QQ or better on the flop, it's just ridiculous.

The absolute #1 way people win in poker is by value betting. The #1 leak of micro players is that they don't value bet thinly enough. Regs, fish, unknowns; all of them call too much, even up at higher stakes. Not valuebetting JJ is criminal on that river.

i dont think we should discount them completely either. And ok i get what ur saying now