$5 NLHE Full Ring: did i value bet too much against major fish

AlfieAA

AlfieAA

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villians stats are 72/12......extreme fish.....


pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (UTG) ($9.71)
UTG+1 ($12.42)
MP1 ($7.12)
MP2 ($1.86)
MP3 ($3.70)
CO ($2.26)
Button ($10.12)
SB ($4.64)
BB ($8.27)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 3
diamond.gif
, 3
heart.gif

Hero bets $0.15, 5 folds, Button calls $0.15, 1 fold, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.47) 3
spade.gif
, A
spade.gif
, 9
spade.gif
(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.35, 1 fold, BB calls $0.35

Turn: ($1.17) 7
spade.gif
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.85, BB calls $0.85

River: ($2.87) 7
club.gif
(2 players)
BB bets $1.35, Hero raises to $8.36 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: $5.57 | Rake: $0.23
 
pocketehs

pocketehs

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I think over bet jamming the river is a bit too much. tbh i dont really like an over bet at all hear just because villain played the hand sooo passively. I doubt he has a strong flush bc we would have probably heard from him on the turn if he did. I would probably bet liek 75-80 on the river and hope he calls with any A or weak flush.
 
acky100

acky100

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Probably fine, put him all in though the like $5.80 or whatever he has left and take your time first, even though shoving $8.36 is the same as $5.80 or whatever he has left, $5.80 looks smaller to the fish and thats always important when trying to rob whales of their cash
 
AlfieAA

AlfieAA

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I think over bet jamming the river is a bit too much. tbh i dont really like an over bet at all hear just because villain played the hand sooo passively. I doubt he has a strong flush bc we would have probably heard from him on the turn if he did. I would probably bet liek 75-80 on the river and hope he calls with any A or weak flush.

Yeah he showed me a medium club card when he folded, i knew he had a flush, pretty obvious tbh, i suppose my thinking was jam huge on the river in the hope he would think i was bluffing resulting in an insta call.....because the fishes love a flush no matter how strong......obv this fishtard smelled a bigger flush or the boat and opted out.....should have just did what acky said and made it about $5 or something, pretty sure he would have called that tbh....cheers man
 
AlfieAA

AlfieAA

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Probably fine, put him all in though the like $5.80 or whatever he has left and take your time first, even though shoving $8.36 is the same as $5.80 or whatever he has left, $5.80 looks smaller to the fish and thats always important when trying to rob whales of their cash

thanks acky, yeah i hollywooded it for about 30 seconds before jamming lol, next time i will do what you said though, makes more sense...ty
 
honeycrush

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Have you moved back up to 5NL Alfie?
 
Logan2

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I think value bet smaller can work there. Pot on river was less than $4.50 after he bet $1.35, he play the hand passive until river when decide to bet, so is telling you that want to see showdown cheap, something like $3.50 could be better there because will mean villain gona have $ left, so he could call just because still can play later even if lose, also the times he got the nut flush gona reraise us most of the time, so i think is better than bet the $5.xx amount.
 
AlfieAA

AlfieAA

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I think value bet smaller can work there. Pot on river was less than $4.50 after he bet $1.35, he play the hand passive until river when decide to bet, so is telling you that want to see showdown cheap, something like $3.50 could be better there because will mean villain gona have $ left, so he could call just because still can play later even if lose, also the times he got the nut flush gona reraise us most of the time, so i think is better than bet the $5.xx amount.

thanks logan, yeah, i suppose i just got greedy and tried to expunge him from his stack.....although if he wanted to see the showdown for cheap, why didnt he just check the river like what he did previous streets?.....he had the flush, if it went check check after the river, then 'in his mind' he would think he would be good anyway.....why try and get another measly dolla out of me?.......once i seen his stupid bet i wanted to take it to value town, but the c""t wasnt having none of it
 
Logan2

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He can´t see showdown for cheap checking because every street when he check you bet, so if he check on river you could bet w/e amount you want, so what he do is setting the amount he want to pay for showdown, and also can make you think he have the flush and make you fold if you don´t have the spade, he never gona think you are on a boat, so even with Ax could think have the winning hand if both miss on the spade or he could have a weak flush and really don´t want to pay more. Value betting there is 2.5 times he´s bet or 60-65% pot after he bet , but anything higher is bet over pot and unless he have a strong flush not gona pay. Some times when you think they have air you could try even just double his bet (bet like$2.5). Point is to make the bet so small that could call even with Ax or a really weak flush so we get a extra value there, and the times he got a strong flush gona raise and we could ship it.
 
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Nathan Williams

Nathan Williams

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Looks fine to me. I definitely prefer the river jam by the way. I don't hollywood as long though, ~5 seconds usually. No real evidence that this is more +EV. I just want them to think I am flipping out though so I have always thought that if I take too long it seems too pre-contrived. Maybe thinking too deeply into it, who knows.
 
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js520

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Is betting the turn correct here? I would have checked back turn and hope i can boat up on the river, hard to envisage much worse calling the turn. Maybe I'm wrong?
 
Seraphim

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Is betting the turn correct here? I would have checked back turn and hope i can boat up on the river, hard to envisage much worse calling the turn. Maybe I'm wrong?
That's exactly what I was thinking.
 
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Sori

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I actually like the shove here....he is a passive player and shows strength on the river- he could very well have a strong enough flush here that he doesn't fold. I think you get a call here enough to make it a better play than a smaller raise.
 
S

Six Hurdles

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Is betting the turn correct here? I would have checked back turn and hope i can boat up on the river, hard to envisage much worse calling the turn. Maybe I'm wrong?

I think you have to bet this turn. You have fold equity on, let's say, 8 or worse flush and you have the re-draw to the FH. If they shove over the top you have to fold, but I think you are losing value to a fish by checking back the turn.
 
danprince10

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I probably check turn, as played def shipping river against huge passive fish like that.
 
youregoodmate

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I think you have to bet this turn. You have fold equity on, let's say, 8 or worse flush and you have the re-draw to the FH. If they shove over the top you have to fold, but I think you are losing value to a fish by checking back the turn.

How can you be losing value when you are only getting called by better??

Ill take the free card and thank him for it.
 
S

Six Hurdles

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When they check the spade you can surmise that they don't have a big spade, unless they come over the top, and then w/e fold. I think the fold equity on a checked four flush is too large to ignore. I think your fold equity outweighs your showdown value.
 
J

js520

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When they check the spade you can surmise that they don't have a big spade, unless they come over the top, and then w/e fold. I think the fold equity on a checked four flush is too large to ignore. I think your fold equity outweighs your showdown value.
Given that op said villain is a 72/12 extreme fish i doubt he is folding any flush no matter how high, our hand is far too strong to turn into a bluff. Take the free card and hope to boat up imo, if river doesnt pair its an easy fold to any bet aswell because i doubt a fish will turn a made hand like a pair into a bluff
 
acky100

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I would actually worry about getting bluffed off my hand sometimes if i checked turn, i still think you can get value from worse too so dont hate betting the turn vs a player like this
 
Deco

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I shove this river, villains never letting go of Kc flush and may even show up with weaker flushes from time to time.
 
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