$5 NLHE Full Ring: Did I play nut flush draw too agressive

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fundiver199

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When UTG+1 at a full ring table puts in a 3-bet, his range is pretty darn narrow, and when he C-bet the flop into 4 other players, it is even narrower. He is not doing this with AK, and he never has a draw. AX of spades and KQ of spades could take this line, but you block these hands completely.

So basically he always has an overpair here, and sometimes even top set. This mean, you have no fold equity but decent implied odds, if you improve to a flush. And therefore the strategy is to simply check-call and draw as cheaply as possible.
 
Collin Moshman

Collin Moshman

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Nut flush draws can be decent ones to play passively given that they have more outs and some showdown value (they dominate other draws/bluffs). Villain is definitely showing strength so I tend to agree with Fundiver here on check/calling. If you do check-raise, you want to go with larger sizing that gives you fold equity and then jam most turns if called.

Pre-flop is fairly close. Given that he 3-bets you from UTG+1 jamming is risky, but tempting given how much is in the middle with so much dead money!
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

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Don't raise your flush draws here!!!!

Did I play nut flush draw too agressive?
There're 5 caller and pot's too big and check-raise cost too much

UTG1 Vpip 24/16/2
https://www.upswingpoker.com/replayer/324vfaqCN

Hello there siwanat99, how you doing? Welcome to the CardsChat community and thank you very much for sharing this beautiful (and hard) hand!
Let's go for the action?

Preflop:

Hero UTG is deep stacked in a Full-Ring Table and opens 3x with AQs. Standard.
The problem arises when UTG+1, also deep stacked elects to 3-bet to 3x. If we were heads-up the decision making would be easier. However, LP, CO and BB decided to join the party...which sucks for us:

AQs is not such a good hand for folding here...
AQs is not such a great hand for 4-betting Squeezing here, because we could be already dominated by AK...
AQs is not such a great candidate for calling, but which real options do we have here?
AQs has a great playability postflop and we want to get lucky and get a flush draw or a straight draw +TP, etc, or get away!

Top Pairs in situations like this will cost our souls, because UTG+1 will have all the AK combos in its range and we will have none.
That being said, because we are deep stacked and we are last to act, I don't see the call as a bad thing. (as a default. some cases we will need to 4-bet this to isolate the preflop callers or simply fold).

Flop issues:

You check your flush draw, okay, and the UTG+1 player wisely decided to make a 1/3 pot bet with his entire range here. Because a 1/2 pot would be very expensive, given the size of the pot.
When UTG +1 bets 1/3 pot, out of position in relation to two player it has AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT and 99. I don't believe someone is 3-betting UTG+1 vs UTG with 55 or J9s.
As bluffs, UTG+1 will also have some flush draws, straight draws and some A5s that it decided to bluff here.
You cannot raise your flush draws here, because you have no AA, KK or JJ!!! If you had these hands you would/could 4-bet preflop (except JJ, but even so, yo don't have these combos,, you are blocking mostly QJ which villain will not have many right now).
Besides, the pot was already too big. When you miss the turn, and you will miss 55% of turns, what you gonna do? Keep bluffing? Because now that no flushes came in the turn, UTG+1 will keep calling all day long with JJ, QQ, KK and AA.
You raised a very larger size in the flop with a very potential bluff. However, are you sure that this villain is going to continue paying you in the turn when you hit your flush? Or when you hit your ace, are you comfortable knowing that UTG has all the combos of AK and you have none? If you are sure that this villain will still keep paying, deep stacked with its QQ, KK and AA when it completes a flush, okay.
The call will work better here, because hands that could be on our calling range in a situation like this and raising flop are 99 and JJ. However you don't have too many of these combos right now. And 99 and JJ are not always raising this flop! Sometimes we can call here a lot to trap UTG+1 A's, K's and draws! We must read ranges before taking actions.

Turn:

In the turn there are already 313.5 blinds in the pot. Here you should never bluff like this! When you really have 99 and JJ with sets here, and bets the turn, you are begging to UTG+1 to fold the turn, because now when you bet turn you are never representing your flush draw, but the nuts or second nuts.

As long as the pot is wildly huge I would go for two lines here:

A) Check-fold because I believe my polarized check-raise bluff didn't pass and now the pot is already too expensive

B) Continue to represent the nuts in the turn and JAMS all in, because there are a beautiful 313.5 blinds pot to fight for: when the villain decides to call me with JJ+, I am still protected in some rivers, where I can get to hit an ace and beat KK and QQ, or when I get some spade which will beat JJ.

What I would never do in a huge pot like this, in the turn, I would NEVER bet 1/2 pot in a turn like this, giving excellent odds for the UTG+1 to continue with JJ+.
UTG+1 has to pay $ 2.80 for a total pot of $ 12, plus your entire stack behind? The UTG+1 need to be right here only 1 out of 4 times for this call to be profitable with its JJ+ hands.
If you decide to bluff this turn, JAM IT!

River

When you check river you really showed to everyone that you was bluffing. UTG+1, again, wisely checked behind, because the pot is already too strong and UTG+1 wishes to protect its rank for the times you really show up some 99 and JJ that decided to trap the river.
Never forget: do not raise your flush draws in the flop/turn when you are not the aggressor of the hand (yup, you cold called 3-bet preflop 4-handed)!!!! ;)

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
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kkonicke

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When UTG+1 at a full ring table puts in a 3-bet, his range is pretty darn narrow, and when he C-bet the flop into 4 other players, it is even narrower. He is not doing this with AK, and he never has a draw. AX of spades and KQ of spades could take this line, but you block these hands completely.

So basically he always has an overpair here, and sometimes even top set. This mean, you have no fold equity but decent implied odds, if you improve to a flush. And therefore the strategy is to simply check-call and draw as cheaply as possible.


I completely agree with this. For me there is at least 95% chance he has overpaid or top set. The 5% is for if this guy is a total nut case, I wouldn't be on it though. Check/call and fold the river when you miss.
 
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